standard stats for a nit / TAG player ?

[pterodactyl_]

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This question comes up almost once a week. Which is fine

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no, its really annoying, and a pointless question

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Agreed, but its still gonna keep happening either way.

[Landlord79]

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Postflop play is much more important in maintaining a good win rate. That being said: I think a stereotypical TAG stats would be around 14/8 and LAG stats would look more like 20/11. The line between the two gets blurry and not all stats fall into one category - keep that in mind and make sure not to pigeonhole anyone just because their stats reflect one style of play.

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Wow, I guess I run LAG then as I run ~20/11/4. I never thought that I deserved the title. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[raistlinx]

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So what are the average stats of players that are considered winning players at FR?

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The problem is that first no one knows who is a winning player and who isn't. Pokerboy probably has the most hands in to construct the most accurate analysis of a win rate (others I am sure have enough hands as well). Even then you have to ask yourself how certain do you want to be about your answer before you then constuct a confidence interval on your winrate and SD over your given sample size.

It's really not a question that can be answered without first having different styles have a large enough sample size to have meaningful data and then doing some math.

[Landlord79]

We need a standard sticky to post on these requests just so the question can be answered quickly and not have to be rehashed every week. Something along the lines of, "Some winning LAG players play 40/20/6 while others lose at this stat level. Some TAGs play 14/7/3 and are winners while still others lose with these stats. Your ability to put villains on hands and show down a winner, bluff someone off a better hand or lay down your losing hands is the primary ingredient upon being a winning player. Don't think it is all about numbers; reading your opponents style and cards is much more important than numbers and will be the primary determinate of your success or failure in poker. How you achieve winning is up to you, but there is no cookie cutter path to achieving this."
Landlord79

[Luckyspikes]

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Something along the lines of, "Some winning LAG players play 40/20/6 while others lose at this stat level. Some TAGs play 14/7/3 and are winners while still others lose with these stats.

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I think these 3 stats are not THE stats, but some stats like Went to showdown, win without showdown, %continuation bet etc are more difficult to "understand".

In my opinion, for a standard type of play (LAG / TAG) these stats are very similar between 2 LAG or 2 TAG winning players.

A short winning players should be able to find interesting way of progress here.

For exemple, i'am a short winning TAG and my % win at showdown is about 20% (just an exemple), the average for a standard TAG is about 55%. I may ask to myself "well dude, i call to much crapy hands on the river".

I know there's not perfect stats for a type of play, but if you can compare AND understand what stats (the % or number) means, this sounds like a revelation for studious NOOB poker players like me.

OMG my english looks so bad.

[raistlinx]

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Something along the lines of, "Some winning LAG players play 40/20/6 while others lose at this stat level. Some TAGs play 14/7/3 and are winners while still others lose with these stats.

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I think these 3 stats are not THE stats, but some stats like Went to showdown, win without showdown, %continuation bet etc are more difficult to "understand".

In my opinion, for a standard type of play (LAG / TAG) these stats are very similar between 2 LAG or 2 TAG winning players.

A short winning players should be able to find interesting way of progress here.

For exemple, i'am a short winning TAG and my % win at showdown is about 20% (just an exemple), the average for a standard TAG is about 55%. I may ask to myself "well dude, i call to much crapy hands on the river".

I know there's not perfect stats for a type of play, but if you can compare AND understand what stats (the % or number) means, this sounds like a revelation for studious NOOB poker players like me.

OMG my english looks so bad.

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There are many factors in "winning" play but the only numbers that matter in determining if you are a winning player or not are your WR, STDDEV and Hand count, and hand count needs to be huge...

[Octopus]

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FWIW, I started playing semiseriously NL25 10 days ago, and my stats after 9k hands are 10'72/5'64/2'82

I'm trying to up the pfr but I don't know if it's worth it at this level, because those players who limp everything will call anyway if we raise them.

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They will call with trash does not sound like a good reason not to raise.

[raistlinx]

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FWIW, I started playing semiseriously NL25 10 days ago, and my stats after 9k hands are 10'72/5'64/2'82

I'm trying to up the pfr but I don't know if it's worth it at this level, because those players who limp everything will call anyway if we raise them.

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They will call with trash does not sound like a good reason not to raise.

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It can be. Some hands play better heads up so if this is your goal and it can't be achieved, it's sometimes better not to raise. Especially if they will make big mistakes post flop.

[oober]

The only stat that matters is ptbb/100. It doesnt matter how you get there. A good player will adjust, therefore their stats will vary.

Say you are playing on a site that is mostly very laggy players, well you might end up tightening up slightly while playing there.. Then you go on to play at a site that has a ton of TPs well now you loosen up.. Stats will vary, only the ptbb/100 matters...

[raistlinx]

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The only stat that matters is ptbb/100. It doesnt matter how you get there. A good player will adjust, therefore their stats will vary.

Say you are playing on a site that is mostly very laggy players, well you might end up tightening up slightly while playing there.. Then you go on to play at a site that has a ton of TPs well now you loosen up.. Stats will vary, only the ptbb/100 matters...

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This stat is meaningless without STDDEV and sample size though. That was my point.