NL25 - Flopped a low straight, facing a big raise.

[Gullanian]

As worm said, limping is fine if you know you can probably get to the flop b/c blinds are tight.

[TheOctagon]

tight blinds are the reason you should be opening up your raising range because you can steal a lot easier if blinds are tight. There is pretty much never a good reason to open limp- that is fundamental, read the stickies.

[shpanko]

Agree with TheOctagon, Open limping is fundamentally bad. The only time I'd ever open limp here is if button,sb, and bb are all really loose and never fold to c-bets. But with tight blinds we can open up our raising/stealing range. Even if we are called pf we'll take down on the flop a lot of the time.

Summary: Open limping is retarded especially in this situation. Why would we not want to play a raised pot in position with a good hand like 67s? Especially when there's a good chance we'll take down the blinds right there?

As for the hand snapcall. If it were rainbow this would be closer. But not with the flush draw out there.

[sputum]

[ QUOTE ]
ok raise it, but do not limp

[/ QUOTE ]
Ever?
If you're going to get a cheap flop against bad opponents why not? Are you categorically stating that the ev of raising ALWAYS beats the ev of calling?
EDIT: Fastposted [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] But there are a lot of opponents who are better to limp against if your table selection doesn't completely suck [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[TheOctagon]

if two or three people limp then yes I'll limp behind, but if it's folded to me I'm raising 67s almost all the time, especially with tight blinds where I will take it down preflop most the time.

[shpanko]

sputum-

Yeah sometimes I'll overlimp with 67s but I don't think that I will ever open limp ever. I don't like saying that I do a certain thing in poker 100% of the time but this is one of them. I basically never open limp. And not trying to sound arrogant but no good players in micro/ssnl ever open limp.

Why? Because people are more likely to go broke in raised pots. This is why we raise pocket pairs. I mean nobody is open limping pocket pairs (at least you reallys houldn't be) and this is the same reason we raise suited connectors.

Add into that the fact that we will take down the blinds from these tight blinds most of the time. Furthermore, raising disguises our hand and makes our opponents define theres.

I really hope that you guys aren't open limping out there because it's really -ev in nearly all circumstances. There's nothing bad with playing a raised pot in position with a good hand like 67s.

[sputum]

I don't mind raising it as a default but it's always worth examining all the options at your disposal considering the players you are up against. If you're MTing then these kinds of rules make sense from a mental economy point of view but to suggest ANY play is completely automatic irrespective of circumstances just annoys me a bit.
That's better [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[shpanko]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't mind raising it as a default but it's always worth examining all the options at your disposal considering the players you are up against. If you're MTing then these kinds of rules make sense from a mental economy point of view but to suggest ANY play is completely automatic irrespective of circumstances just annoys me a bit.
That's better [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Read excerpt from my previous post:

[ QUOTE ]
The only time I'd ever open limp here is if button,sb, and bb are all really loose and never fold to c-bets. But with tight blinds we can open up our raising/stealing range

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that one should never be doing things 100% on the time in poker. But I really see no reason to open limp 67s from the CO/Button when you have tight blinds. It just doesn't make sense. I feel like you're just playing devil's advocate here. And if you are open limping a bunch in 6-max games then that's too bad because it is most likely losing you money. I'm just trying to help here.

[MrZeke]

You're looking at two pair here and villian likely has you on a combodraw. There is no way you can fold this when only 2 hands beat you.

[Theoren]

Hey guys, thanks a lot for all the help with the hand. I know that open limping is not the optimal thing to do, and I rarely do so, but the guy in the button had raised this BB twice before and the BB reraised him both times. I didn't want to risk facing a reraise and having to fold the hand, so I just limped in, probably not the best thing to do, but anyway...