9/18 Commerece

[chillrob]

I know the rake is bad, but I did fine at the 6/12 games in Northern CA where it was just $1 less. I have done fine at the 4/8 games in Southern CA recently as well, even with the increased rake, easily 2BB an hour, and the rake is a bigger percentage of a bet there than at 9/18.

But if you say with $4 rake you could make $25-$40 per hour, and this is $2 extra per pot... How many pots do you win per hour? I'm pretty sure I never win more than 3 per hour, usually more like 2, so that is only a $4 per hour loss. I know theoretically taking money out of the fishes' pots could make them quit the game sooner, but they sure seem to keep pulling wads from their pockets wherever I play.

[ImWeakTight@UCLA]

So you feel that the Hawain Game is better to play then the Commerece game, there are so many less players there how can the 1$ less in rake make up for the insane people capping flops with gutshots against my sets.

[sternroolz]

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........ insane people capping flops with gutshots against my sets.

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Are you certain that is going on as much as you think it is?

[sternroolz]

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I know the rake is bad, but I did fine at the 6/12 games in Northern CA where it was just $1 less. I have done fine at the 4/8 games in Southern CA recently as well, even with the increased rake, easily 2BB an hour, and the rake is a bigger percentage of a bet there than at 9/18.

But if you say with $4 rake you could make $25-$40 per hour, and this is $2 extra per pot... How many pots do you win per hour? I'm pretty sure I never win more than 3 per hour, usually more like 2, so that is only a $4 per hour loss. I know theoretically taking money out of the fishes' pots could make them quit the game sooner, but they sure seem to keep pulling wads from their pockets wherever I play.

[/ QUOTE ]

A max $4 RAKE is drastically different than $4 insta drop on the flop + $1 jackpot and $1 more on the river as is currently the situation at Commerce. I stand by my statements.

Also, if you are winning only 2-3 pots per hour, I would love to be in games that are that loose aggressive. If those games are not loose/aggressive, you are running really bad or playing way to tight pf.

[chillrob]

The games in Northern CA are basically the same - it is really a "drop" I guess, not technically a "rake" - they take it out as soon as there is a flop. They are always very loose - sometimes aggressive, sometimes not.

I play pretty tight preflop, but pretty much use the guidelines given by SSHE, almost exactly unless I have a particular reason to change. Certainly not running bad - mostly winning a few big pots and losing ones - isn't that what a winning player is supposed to do? I always guessed the average winning player wins fewer pots than the average losing one.

[sternroolz]

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I always guessed the average winning player wins fewer pots than the average losing one.

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If the games are featuring 6-7 players or more to every pot, and continued action after the pot, that is exactly what will happen. It's simply my experience that Los Angeles games in general, and Commerce's $9-18 in particular, have become less action filled games over the past 2 years or so. There are better strategies discussed on this forum to beat those type games, and nearly all involve playing significantly more hands that SSHE might suggest. Obviously if you use this strategy, a high drop will decimate you.

But in loose games, ABC poker is correct, and you will definitely win fewer pots than average. And drop will have less of an impact.

[chillrob]

Well the 6-7 players to a lot of flops (and at least 5 to pretty much every one) is the kinds of games I have been playing lately. Not just in Northeren CA, I have found the same thing in my recent 4/8 and 6/12 games at Hollywood Park as well though.

The 8/16 at the Bike featured bad play but was a bit tighter, maybe that is similar to the Commerce 9/18?

I always thought one should generally play fewer hands than SSHE recommends if the game was tighter though, not more. Even the two sets of recommendations found within SSHE for a looser and tighter game suggest that. I would certainly be interested in seeing references to strategies about opening up hand selection in these games.

[Sailboats]

[ QUOTE ]
Well the 6-7 players to a lot of flops (and at least 5 to pretty much every one) is the kinds of games I have been playing lately. Not just in Northeren CA, I have found the same thing in my recent 4/8 and 6/12 games at Hollywood Park as well though.

The 8/16 at the Bike featured bad play but was a bit tighter, maybe that is similar to the Commerce 9/18?

I always thought one should generally play fewer hands than SSHE recommends if the game was tighter though, not more. Even the two sets of recommendations found within SSHE for a looser and tighter game suggest that. I would certainly be interested in seeing references to strategies about opening up hand selection in these games.

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so have you actuallu played the 9/18?

[chillrob]

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Well the 6-7 players to a lot of flops (and at least 5 to pretty much every one) is the kinds of games I have been playing lately. Not just in Northeren CA, I have found the same thing in my recent 4/8 and 6/12 games at Hollywood Park as well though.

The 8/16 at the Bike featured bad play but was a bit tighter, maybe that is similar to the Commerce 9/18?

I always thought one should generally play fewer hands than SSHE recommends if the game was tighter though, not more. Even the two sets of recommendations found within SSHE for a looser and tighter game suggest that. I would certainly be interested in seeing references to strategies about opening up hand selection in these games.

[/ QUOTE ]

so have you actuallu played the 9/18?

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Nope, that's why I asked if maybe it was similar to the Bike 8/16. Until this thread every post I have ever seen mentioned it made it sound like the best game in town though, so I planned to try it the next time I was in town.

[sternroolz]

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I always thought one should generally play fewer hands than SSHE recommends if the game was tighter though, not more. Even the two sets of recommendations found within SSHE for a looser and tighter game suggest that. I would certainly be interested in seeing references to strategies about opening up hand selection in these games.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a bit difficult to explain in one post. I even questioned it several times as my reading, learning, etc. taught me exactly what you are stating. But reading this forum....there are some really knowlegable players. Around August last year I made a real push to move up from the $9-18 at Commerce, which I had been playing for the previous 2 1/2 years. So I started playing a lot of $10-20 and $15-30 in Vegas. The games there at that level tend to be tighter and feature better players than Los Angeles games. The advice I read on this board....in general pushing a wide range of hand pf especially in position, continuing that push post flop, raising out of the blinds everytime with high pairs and AK/AQ/AJ and more, and really concentrating on hand reading and not just calling down with TPTK no matter what....are concepts that really boosted my game. And most of these are directly conflicting with book advice.

I even had a post here where I openly questioned why people are giving this advice and how could it possibly be correct. Well, I was wrong. Anyway, I'm not a very good writter and I'm not doing justice to some of the concepts that are discussed in this forum, and suggest that you read through some of the threads.