5 Kings in the Deck - Page 2

jjshabado · #11 05-23-2007, 11:21 PM

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This incident occurred 2 years ago, so there were not any automatic shufflers at the table. I was just reminded of it today so I decided to post about it to see what should have happened.

All the floor did was change the deck and no one was given their rake back. My question is if people in the hand were suppose to get their money back, how can the casino force the person who won the pot to give it back? It was not his fault the deck was foul and the pot had already been pushed to him. The chips won from the hand were in his stack when the discovery was made. If anything, I think the Borgata should have given the player who lost the hand his money back, but I was not in the hand so I decided not to interfere.

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If its in the rules that a fouled deck voids the hands, the money was given to him by mistake. Since casinos have lots of big guys I wouldn't worry about him not letting people get the money back.

I would have spoken up there. I don't think this is one of the cases you should be quiet, since there was an obvious dealer/floor error (not voiding the hand and giving money back) it seems to me that the best interest of the game is to make sure the rules are followed.

AngusThermopyle · #12 05-23-2007, 11:30 PM

Sounds like the hand was "over" (pot shoved, cards mucked, new shuffle begun) when the irregularity was found. In that case, nothing (except getting a new deck/setup) is done.

jjshabado · #13 05-23-2007, 11:39 PM

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Sounds like the hand was "over" (pot shoved, cards mucked, new shuffle begun) when the irregularity was found. In that case, nothing (except getting a new deck/setup) is done.

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Out of curiosity, at what point is the hand "over"? Is it when the next deal has begun?

Mr Rick · #14 05-23-2007, 11:41 PM

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Don't most places put the drop in the tray?

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I don't know any casino that does that.

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Foxwoods does it.

This reminds me of a story told by a guy at a table. His wife had moved from a broken table to another game and accidentally took the card with her that got her the seat. She dropped it in the muck and later got four 6's. The loser had a 6 as part of his flush - so it caused a stir until they figured out what happened...

sirpupnyc · #15 05-24-2007, 12:43 AM

The hand isn't void in this case, is it? If, say, the K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] flopped and somebody said "Hey, I have the K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in my hand", then the hand's void and everybody gets their bets back.

But if nobody was aware the deck was irregular during the hand, even though all five Kings were actually dealt, shouldn't it play the same as a deck missing a card (the hand stands)? Certainly once the pot's pushed the argument for voiding the hand is weak at best.

(This assumes OP's King and AK's King were the duplicates--if AK or KK had a duplicate of the board King, they're supposed to have said so, and then the hand *would* be voided. And since KK showed, some eagle-eyed nit probably would have piped up.)

jjshabado · #16 05-24-2007, 12:46 AM

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The hand isn't void in this case, is it? If, say, the K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] flopped and somebody said "Hey, I have the K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in my hand", then the hand's void and everybody gets their bets back.

But if nobody was aware the deck was irregular during the hand, even though all five Kings were actually dealt, shouldn't it play the same as a deck missing a card (the hand stands)? Certainly once the pot's pushed the argument for voiding the hand is weak at best.

(This assumes OP's King and AK's King were the duplicates--if AK or KK had a duplicate of the board King, they're supposed to have said so, and then the hand *would* be voided. And since KK showed, some eagle-eyed nit probably would have piped up.)

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I think there's a pretty good anti-cheating reason to always void a bad deck. Who's to say that the extra card isn't because somebody slipped themselves an extra king? While cheating isn't that likely, I think a hand dealt with bad deck should be automatically void.

JacksonTens · #17 05-24-2007, 01:52 AM

A similar situation once happened in the crown Melbourne 5CS 7up game. The player played like two orbits before realising there were no Aces in the deck!!! All the winners kept their money and the losers got back what they'd lost.

JT

binki · #18 05-25-2007, 10:15 AM

Similar situation at Club One in Fresno, shuffle machine indicates 51 cards and teh dealer deals them anyway. Dealer counts the cards 3 times getting 52 on the first 2 counts and 51 on the last. The player in front of the shuffle machine kept telling the dealer the deck was short and the dealer kept saying that the machine was wrong. He then lays them out by suit and sure enough, 1 missing card. We had played at least 3 hands with the deck short. Floor ruling was to replace the deck and all hands played stood.

sem25 · #19 05-25-2007, 12:35 PM

I remember this happening before at the Borg back when they had their old room. The extra card in that case was a K as well. Everytime they spread the deck out, I like to double check that all the cards are there.

Poshua · #20 05-25-2007, 12:41 PM

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Don't most places put the drop in the tray?

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I don't know any casino that does that.

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This is standard in Atlantic City and Connecticut. Dealers do not count down the tray at the start of each down, because there isn't a "correct" count for the tray to have. The Vegas/California standard of using a drop box makes a lot more sense to me from a loss prevention perspective, but I guess the eastern operators feel they can sufficiently keep track by other methods.