Am I a Jerk or is this a fair move?

[pig4bill]

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So basically, you accidentally half acted out of turn?

b

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Nope, he held chips over the betting line but they didnt touch the felt. The other guy he raises and immediately said allin. OP mucked his hand whilst taking his chips back.

Anyway, the other guy is just a schmuck, his fault

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Am I reading the OP all wrong?

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Yes. OP is oop, all-in guy was in position.

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I think he's saying that he was SECOND to act, had picked up chips and moved them forward to make a bet before the player in front of him had done anything and then pulled them back when that player went all in. Is that right? People in my limit games do that all the time to try to show the first to act player that they are going to call so that player should re-think if he really wants to bet. Usually this is a gigantic tell and the first player can safely bet. As I said, if this is a *jerk move* he's got plenty of company and I've never seen the acting out of turn player be made to put in chips if the first to act hasn't done anything yet.

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I think what he said was he intended to raise, but never got the chance to put the chips down because the guy after him was so fast. His possible "jerk" move is the pulling back of the chips, not the pushing forward.

[MicroBob]

I agree with pig's interpretation.

It's a trucky post because of the OP's use of the term 'OOP'.

I take OOP mean that he is 'first to act', not that he acted out-of-turn.

Pig and Howard and I all are not mind-readers though.
It would be nice if OP would clarify what he meant.

Is he first to act, and then the other guy goes all-in before he gets to finish his bet?
Or is he second to act, is holding his chips out there, and then the guy to act before him goes all-in?

[bernie]

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Beware that in some rooms that's a bet by rule.

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Yep. Sometimes it doesn't have to touch the felt, it just has to go over the line. Even in the air.

b

[artichoker]

sorry about all of the confusion. I was first to act and OOP, crossed the line and not put my chips down. Flash gordon had position on me and went all in before I had a chance to actually touch my chips to the felt.

I pulled back my stack asked if it was ok to muck. when the dealer nodded yes i tossed in my cards and apologized to the player on my left. he took it very well. I somehow feel bad about the situation but it saved me quite a bit of dough.


This had to be my worst trip to vegas in terms of stupid plays. I slept very little and was not playing my top game...

another semi-donkey highlight..

I limp in middle position and the player to my immediate left limps in as well. BB raised 5xBB. this player has raised in early position/BB/SB 6 times in the last 60-70 minutes and many have mucked so i figure hes just trying to make another move. i raise 3x (15BB) his original bet player to my right goes all in for an additional 10BB. Im staring at a K4 offsuit and put him on a small pair. meanwhile original BB mucks. I flip over my cards on the table everyone is egging me on to call. the sad thing is that i know that i'm ~1:2.5 and have to call on my crap hand. he shows the 5/5 and i flop two pair to win this hand. Everyone at the table is going nuts and probably thinks im super donk but I know that this was mathematically the correct play.

oof...

[greg nice]

jerk.

[Siegmund]

If you were out of turn, you were just being a jerk. If you were in turn (and, from your latest post, it sounds like you were), you were being an outright cheat.

Can you muck? Sure. Can you take your chips back, after deliberately pushing them over the line, in turn? Your hand gets chopped off at the wrist and left in the pot along with the chips.

Admittedly not ALL rooms in the US enforce the chopping off at the wrist part. Shame.

[MicroBob]

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you were being an outright cheat.

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get real. it's not his fault the other guy pushed all-in that quickly.

the all-in guy didn't even have any idea how much he was going to bet.
OP could very legitimately just dropped one chip in if he was indeed obligated to bet for crossing te line.

Don't forget the possibility that the quick all-in player was perhaps noticing the OP's possible reluctance to bet and just decided to push out-of-turn to try to induce a fold.

[pfapfap]

Unless you had cut off your chips in front of your cards, then picked them up and started to move them in, I don't think it's a bad move. The other guy needs to protect his hand. I never make an action without chips being in the pot in NL. If I raised all-in before my opponent even said "bet", I'd only be upset with myself if my opponent then folded.

[Assani Fisher]

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Anyway, the other guy is just a schmuck, his fault

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I'm shocked that I'm the only one who has thought of this yet...

My first thought was that the other guy did this on purpose to seem strong.

I've seen people do this quite a few times and every time they were bluffing. The most recent time was this:

I get AA, standard raise, one caller behind me. Flop comes A-Q-x with 2 clubs. I make a standard continuation bet, he calls. Turn is a club. I check and he bets a huge amount, like two times the pot. I think it over and call. River is a queen, giving me a full house. He has a about 1.5x what he bet on the turn left in his stack, so a bet of a little over 1/2 the pot would put him all in. But I think my hand is a bit obvious and I'm sitting there thinking what to do. As I'm thinking, he shoves all in out of turn. I of course call. He shows KJ for a missed inside stright draw.

[steamraise]

In your room are you allowed to bring a handfull of chips
past the line and then check? If so you did nothing wrong.

If the forward motion requires a bet then, I would say,
you owe the minimum bet.

Was the out of turn raise an accident?

or

Was it a move and he wanted you to muck?