100nl QQ hand #2, post flop this time - Page 2

silenced · #11 05-08-2007, 11:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]

folding big over pairs against unknowns for 3/4 of a stack is pretty bad IMO.

also, i seriously doubt that those that like leading the flop are going to fold to a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

you would only have less than 1/3 ur stack committed after calling flop bet...

and, the poster who advised leading the flop out did advise bet/folding...

Fat Nicky · #12 05-08-2007, 11:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
you would only have less than 1/3 ur stack committed after calling flop bet...

[/ QUOTE ]

regardless...we still have the best hand most of the time. calling the flop and folding non A/K turn is pretty bad i think.

[ QUOTE ]
and, the poster who advised leading the flop out did advise bet/folding...

[/ QUOTE ]

i must have missed that. bet fold here is awful

Weatherhead03 · #13 05-08-2007, 11:22 PM

Im c/r AI..I'd hate to see a K or A fall on the turn which is why im not c/c and c/f is just stupid. Why would you call PF to c/f this flop.

silenced · #14 05-08-2007, 11:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Im c/r AI..I'd hate to see a K or A fall on the turn which is why im not c/c and c/f is just stupid. Why would you call PF to c/f this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont think anyone advised to c/f this flop...that is obviously horrendous. However, Nicky, when you say that we have the best hand here most of the time I rly have to disagree...Maybe this is just a feeling that I am paying too much attention to but i really feel that when hero opens UTG, gets 1 call, and then villain makes a 3bet to only 3x the open raise, he is almost always going to be carrying AA/KK....but more importantly rarely AK --> making us either way way ahead or far far behind

holyfield5 · #15 05-08-2007, 11:54 PM

i dont understand bet/fold here at all, myself and im sure many others are inclined to raise donkbets a very high% of the time regardless of holdings, bet fold is worthless imo but i think b3b is better than c/r here.

Jay Riall · #16 05-08-2007, 11:58 PM

4bet pf.

phantom_lord · #17 05-09-2007, 05:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Okay...I'm having huge problems with this hand. One of you says that leading oop on this flop is best - I disagree. Any decent villain will recognize this as your hand is very marginal and would know your pretty much bet/folding. Also, why do so many people thing c/r ai is best? Look at how strong his 3bet pfr is...he clearly wants action. I c/c this flop and take my chances of non ace or king dropping and if villain fires another barrel im done --> is this horrendous?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's fine.

Unknown Soldier · #18 05-09-2007, 07:11 AM

4b pf

as played b/c c/c crai are all fine (b/f and c/f are just horrendous - you didnt call pf to fold to an undercard flop) it's player dependent really, against an unknown id probbly just crai, you get value from TT/JJ and you negate your positional dis-advantage.

Schmitty 87 · #19 05-09-2007, 02:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Im c/r AI..I'd hate to see a K or A fall on the turn which is why im not c/c and c/f is just stupid. Why would you call PF to c/f this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont think anyone advised to c/f this flop...that is obviously horrendous. However, Nicky, when you say that we have the best hand here most of the time I rly have to disagree...Maybe this is just a feeling that I am paying too much attention to but i really feel that when hero opens UTG, gets 1 call, and then villain makes a 3bet to only 3x the open raise, he is almost always going to be carrying AA/KK....but more importantly rarely AK --> making us either way way ahead or far far behind

[/ QUOTE ]

So what do you suggest our line should be? If his range is always AA/KK then we might as well c/f the flop. But we all know that that's terrible and an awful approximation of his range. c/c then c/f the turn is also incredibly bad because we'd be getting like 2:1 if he moves in.

bet/call (or 3-bet allin, whatever gets it in on the flop) looks really good to me here, but if you're playing a reg and you are a reg yourself, i think c/r ai is better, just because i doubt you're ever leading out as a bluff here.

chirpy · #20 05-09-2007, 02:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Okay...I'm having huge problems with this hand. One of you says that leading oop on this flop is best - I disagree. Any decent villain will recognize this as your hand is very marginal and would know your pretty much bet/folding. Also, why do so many people thing c/r ai is best? Look at how strong his 3bet pfr is...he clearly wants action. I c/c this flop and take my chances of non ace or king dropping and if villain fires another barrel im done --> is this horrendous?

[/ QUOTE ]

Felting queens for 100bb(against a random opponent at 100nl) on an undercards board is fine...just depends whether you want to crai on the flop or wait for a safe turn