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#11
04-29-2007, 04:37 AM
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Re: Theory- Merging Your Range
Ok thanks for explanation. I understand it for sure now.
Still I think it doesnt have merit. Imo we should always try to guess what's his strategy is and make appriopiate play in particular situation. Against any strategy (plain or mixed) there exists optimal play and we should just make it based on the best guess we can make in given moment. [ QUOTE ] The hands you've played so far are enough to tell you that there's a 50% chance he's the calling station and a 50% chance he's a folder. There is a significant portion of your range that should bet without knowing if the bet is a value bet or a bluff. [/ QUOTE ] Hmm.. so hes playin some mixed strategy which include folding better hands and calling worse ones in ONE moment. So hes a donk according to my understanding of poker thoery. 
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#12
04-29-2007, 04:43 AM
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Re: Theory- Merging Your Range
Here you go punter:
Full Tilt Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (2 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com Button ($1550) Hero ($603) Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Button posts a blind of $6. <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $15</font>, Button (poster) calls $12. Flop: ($33) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> Button checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $24</font>, Button calls $24. Turn: ($81) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> Button checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $66</font>, Button calls $66. River: ($213) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> Button checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $180</font>, Button calls $180. Final Pot: $573
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#13
04-29-2007, 04:45 AM
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Re: Theory- Merging Your Range
It looks like plain value bet to me ?
I am sorry for being stubborn on this one. I dont mean to be rude or anything. I just think the concept is bs [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Feel free to give up on convincing me if if you think I am not capable of understanding it.
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#16
04-29-2007, 04:47 AM
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Re: Theory- Merging Your Range
[ QUOTE ]
What if he tanks and calls me with a better hand? [/ QUOTE ] Doesnt matter. As I see your read was that you will be called more often than worse hand than better one so you did bet.
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#18
04-29-2007, 04:58 AM
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Re: Theory- Merging Your Range
[ QUOTE ]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The hands you've played so far are enough to tell you that there's a 50% chance he's the calling station and a 50% chance he's a folder. There is a significant portion of your range that should bet without knowing if the bet is a value bet or a bluff. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hmm.. so hes playin some mixed strategy which include folding better hands and calling worse ones in ONE moment. So hes a donk according to my understanding of poker thoery. [/ QUOTE ] No! The point of that example is *not* that he's playing a really weird mixed strategy; it's that the state of our information about his strategy makes it look that way. Obviously the example I gave was extreme and unrealistic, but the concept holds. The point is that not only can you end up valuebluffing against someone actually playing a mixed strategy, you can also do it versus someone who you've seen do two apparently contradictory things. I.e. One part of your history with them indicates they might call really thin, and one part indicates they might fold pretty tight, and you aren't sure which history was accurate and which was an aberration; it's very likely one or the other, but if you don't know which, you can bet without knowing if the bet is profitable because they'll fold better or because they'll call worse.
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#19
04-29-2007, 09:05 AM
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Re: Theory- Merging Your Range
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] It looks like plain value bet to me ? [/ QUOTE ] What if he tanks and calls me with a better hand? [/ QUOTE ] these are such bad examples... in most cases there will be some spots, even with clear value bets, where you'll get called by a better hand (like you're betting a flush and get called by a bigger one, for example). just link to the thread in HSNL about "value bluffing" because the idea is explained way, way better there. with that said, the whole idea of "merging your range" is absolutely way more important and applicable to play vs good players. and it doesn't necessarily matter if you'ved played them multiple times, although it helps a ton, but since most very good players exist past a certain level of hand reading (i.e. "he would only bet the nuts or air here"), you can value bet super thin against them intuitively, or "value bluff" as you might call it. i remember hands i played where i value bet TT on an 8899 board and Q4 on a Q high monotone board against grimstarr and lyric, respectively, without having played them much but both for full pot after heavy flop and turn action... as value bets, full on, but fully aware they were thin bets, yet also hoping very much so that they called. when there's a nuts or air situation, and you can bet something like the nuts that's only slightly better than their best bluff catcher, that just makes you a whole new level of dangerous.
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