3/6 Not Exactly My Favorite River Card... - Page 2

Harv72b · #11 04-23-2007, 08:49 PM

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I admit that I didn't think of bet/fold as a strategy. (PS I hate bet/fold as a strategy, particularly live.)

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I didn't really, either. If it goes bet/raise/call or maybe bet/call/raise then I might be able to force myself to muck, but if it's down to just one opponent I'd probably pay off & justify it with pot size.

jstill · #12 04-23-2007, 08:59 PM

I duno about the whole river line (I always check tho 3 way here, but again I guess arguements could be made for betting, but I dont think CO folds a mid heart with a Q or J very often and that is a lot what his hand looks like).

i will say tho those last two spots u mentioned, it going bet raise call or bet call raise on a 4 flush board when u dont have the 1st or 2nd nuts are both really easy folds (maybe u could consider calling with the right player reads in the first scenario and like the 3rd or 4th nuts).

invictus33 · #13 04-24-2007, 07:42 AM

I'd have to c/c here. I'm definitely showing down against these two because there are several hands that we beat that are easily in their range; but I want a cheap show down. I would only fold if it's two back at me. If it's checked through and I win then I don't feel bad because this is not a value betting situation and if I lose then I saved a bet. But I'm always going to pay 1 bet to show down in a pot this big, not doing that would be a tragedy.

Harv72b · #14 04-24-2007, 10:28 AM

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I dont think CO folds a mid heart with a Q or J very often and that is a lot what his hand looks like).

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I don't think he's ever folding any heart here. My thought was that UTG+1 might, having to fear a raise behind him and/or a 3bet by me when I have the A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

shane88888 · #15 04-24-2007, 10:37 AM

What heart could UTG+1 have that isn't the K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]? Would he limp/RR J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]? It doesn't make sense; either he has a big heart or none at all.

Harv72b · #16 04-24-2007, 10:39 AM

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What heart could UTG+1 have that isn't the K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]? Would he limp/RR J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]? It doesn't make sense; either he has a big heart or none at all.

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A mid pocket pair with a heart is definitely within the range of hands he could've played this way. As is a big overpair or smaller set.

HoneyBadger · #17 04-24-2007, 11:51 AM

After some thought I think bet/folding is best. That is, if you are going to call a bet when you check. Which you probably should.

Harv72b · #18 04-24-2007, 03:00 PM

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After some thought I think bet/folding is best.

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I'm pretty sure you're right. UTG+1 tends towards the passive based on prior experience/his numbers, and while CO has been trying some big street bluffs I don't think he'd pull one against me, after all the strength I've shown so far in the hand.

If anyone's interested, I led the river, UTG+1 waivered for a while before folding (hence my thought that he might have had a mid pair with a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] & decided it wasn't good when I bet again), and CO called with A4 (no heart). MHIG.

shane88888 · #19 04-24-2007, 03:02 PM

I guess I can see limp/reraising with a PP from 88 on down (assuming he'd autoraise 99, TT, and probably JJ and QQ and sometimes limp/reraise AA/KK/QQ/JJ).

T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] would be interesting, though I haven't seen many people limp/reraise TT in a five-way hand. The postflop action would make sense; I doubt he'd raise the turn even with a OE straight-flush draw when you've been representing AA/KK/set and could three-bang the turn with the A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], and definitely maybe with a set. Plus he'd want the fishcakey-playing CO to hang around (then again, maybe that's an argument for him raising).

It's the postflop action that does it for me as far as a hearted small PP. I think a small set would be unlikely; he would have probably would have raised the turn with a three-flush and easy open-ender on board. Besides, he has a friggin set. He would have put in more action somewhere.

Or, he doesn't have a set and has a small PP with a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], and would have peeled the turn with only two dubious set outs and a draw to the non-non-...-non-nut flush. Then again, I don't know the villain.

So I'm thinking bet/fold is probably best.

UTG+1 will call with his two black kings or his smaller set. You get your value.

Parroting James' previously-made and very good point, he might just call with the K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] since it's quite possible the A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is out there and the CO is in a calling mood. He might just call with the A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] since you might fold to raise, and calling two cold could blow out the CO. You're gonna call anyway, just bet it.

But the problem is, if CO is making bizarre late-street bluffs, raising the river here might be too sexy for him to resist.

So, anyway, Hero bets the river and UTG+1 and CO....?

shane88888 · #20 04-24-2007, 03:10 PM

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If anyone's interested, I led the river, UTG+1 waivered for a while before folding (hence my thought that he might have had a mid pair with a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] & decided it wasn't good when I bet again), and CO called with A4 (no heart). MHIG.

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I was operating under the assumption that CO was on any two cards, but A4, I mean, wow.

Nice hand, sir, and thank you for answering my questions before they're even asked.