Antisemitism

[SNOWBALL]

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"Jews [. . .] will often call something anti-semitic when it isn't."

Often? Some examples, please?


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ADL of B'nai Brith called Michael Jordan an anti-semite when he wore a black band during a game to show his support for palestinians.

They called the late Edward Said an anti-semite on numerous occasions also. Here's a quote by Rabbi Michael Lerner regarding the ADL "The ADL lost most of it credibility in my eyes as a civil rights organization when it began to identify criticisms of Israel with anti-Semitism, still more when it failed to defend me when I was receiving threats to my life from right-wing Jewish groups because of my critique of Israeli policy toward Palestinians (it said that these were not threats that came from my being Jewish, so therefore they were not within their area of concern)."

If you need more examples, just look up Jman220's posts in the archive where he calls me an anti-semite probably more than a dozen times, without providing any evidence. The fact that a lot of people on this board acted complacent about that whole affair shows how acceptable the moral shakedown routine has become.

Alarmist demagogues like Abe Foxman (head of ADL) are more powerful and better funded than people like Al Sharpton, and they are more successful too.

The situation isn't surprising though. Tolerance in the world may improve, but the squeaky wheels will still get the grease. The ADL and similar organizations will scream about the sky falling if it fits their political agenda or makes fundraising easier. Politics is dirty business.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

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"Jews [. . .] will often call something anti-semitic when it isn't."

Often? Some examples, please?

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If we debate this, this forum is going to get shut down, since I will end up writing something that Mason sees as formenting hate (there's one example for you [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]).

On a more serious note, this is very common in European debate. However, I have the impression that many (maybe most) Jews think it is unfair as well, so it may simply be that Jewish extremists are more interesting for the media to broadcast than moderate ones.

[govman6767]

The Jewish people would not be so looked down upon if they had some one representing their cause like Al Corrupton errr Sharpton.

Someone to speak out for the cause is definatly needed. "The Jewish Sharpton"

[andyfox]

The ADL is a very powerful organization. See Snowball's post.

[John Kilduff]

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The smart-ass answer to the charge of deicide has always been "If the Jews didn't kill Jesus, where would Christianity be? Instead of condemning the Jews, Christians should be thanking them for proving he was the messiah."

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As I understand it, most Jews do not accept Jesus as the Messiah. One reason for this is that Jesus does not fit the anticipated profile of a messiah who would greatly aid the Jews in this world. However, Jesus made clear that his Father's kingdom is not of this world. Given the different theological views of Jesus' role, it is not surprising that Christians do not thank the Jews for proving Jesus was the messiah - and most Jews do not accept Jesus' death and attested resurrection as proof, anyway.

[andyfox]

On the ADL and Michael Jordan:
http://www.adl.org/Internet_Rumors/jordan.htm

It simply is not true.

So you have, arguably, the ADL/Abe Foxman and Jman220. This is "often"?

[I could not find anything on the web concerning the ADL charges against Edward Said of anti-semitism, even on the ADL's site. Anti-zionism, yes, but Said was certainly anti-Zionist. Linkie? Thanks.]

[samsonite2100]

I saw a stand-up comedian (name forgotten), a big nerdy Jewish guy, who did a pretty good routine on this. He said when he was a kid his family moved about once every 6 months, and every time he started at a new school he got his ass kicked. He said, "my father always tried to tell me it was the bully's fault, but really, after ten different times, don't you have to think it might have something to do with you?" He went on to (humorously) compare that to the problems Jews have.

I think there might be some truth to that. Jewish secrecy and clannishness has not historically been good for their PR. Neither has the whole "chosen people" thing and their (somewhat justified) sense of superiority. A lot of these cultural features are responses to the persecution they've faced, and IMO a vicious cycle started long ago and continues to this day.

The above, however, is not to say that Jews don't face real, unprovoked Celine-style anti-semitism. Cultivation of bizarre Jewish conspiracy theories is practically a national pasttime in the Arab world. Witness the recent Holocaust-denial seminar held in Teheran, or the attempted elevation of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion to literary status by people like Ahmadinejad.

[m_the0ry]

[ QUOTE ]
"Jews [. . .] will often call something anti-semitic when it isn't."

Often? Some examples, please?

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Although this is a sweeping generalization, there are definitely some jews I know who are bothered so much by antisemitism that they project and see it where it does not exist. I think a lot of minority groups do this though so I don't see how it's a trait of the jews any more than someone who is overly adamant against bigotry.

[SNOWBALL]

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Although this is a sweeping generalization, there are definitely some jews I know who are bothered so much by antisemitism that they project and see it where it does not exist. I think a lot of minority groups do this though so I don't see how it's a trait of the jews any more than someone who is overly adamant against bigotry.


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Agreed. We're seeing this now with mexicans in LA. Some think that proposing stronger immigration control is ipso facto racist. There's a professor on my campus who had a stupid sign on his door saying "fixing the borders: dig a moat, fill it water and florida alligators. Problem solved"
I don't think he should be fired, since he was nice enough to take the sign down immediately once he was notified that it was offensive. Also, he is a math professor, so even if he were a total racist, it's not like that would stop him from doing his job.

This is a pretty dumb sign, but I don't think it's necessarily racist. The latino student group on campus is trying to get him fired for this. They're spending a lot of energy doing it too.

BTW, I'm in favor of immigration reform. I just don't think that opposing it makes one racist.

[SNOWBALL]

Hmmm. It's possible that it's that Said attacks are in print instead of the net. The ADL is perhaps smart enough to cover their tracks a bit since he's become popular, and respected, and dead. Anyway, here's a net link to a NYT article where Abe Foxman calls Jimmy Carter bigotted for criticizing Israel:
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstra...A80894DF404482

More stuff:
http://www.deanesmay.com/archives/004985.html
In this blog, Said is called a lying anti-semite apologist for terrorism. This is a compoundedly bizzare claim.

Something anecdotal: I personally knew the producer of that documentary about the founding of israel called The LONg Way Home that won the academy award. His name was Richard Trank. He used to call Chomsky a self-loathing jew, and call Said an anti-semite whenever their names were mentioned. He was nice enough to not never call me an anti-semite though (maybe being 25% jewish qualified me to be a self-loathing jew though?)

I saw the Michael Jordan story in real time about six years ago on one of the cable news networks, so I guess they got fooled too. Sorry for repeating a falsehood. I feel like such a lame dupe when that happens. Usually, it's some shoddy leftist propaganda source that I have to blame, but not this time at least.