It's been a while.

[tyler_cracker]

pb,

we would like 5x, 3x, 76, and overcards (to our pair) to fold.

[Point Blank]

[ QUOTE ]
pb,

we would like 5x, 3x, 76, and overcards (to our pair) to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

assuming these guys call a completely dead flop with K8 or QJ would be a read ... and would not fall under my definition of sensible

also - this guy looks like a retard; so, may 3bet us withouth an ace (what then?)

[tyler_cracker]

pb,

i'm not sure what else you want me to say. there are lots of hands our opponents could have that we want them to fold. raising gives us a great opportunity to induce them to fold. ergo, we raise.

will they call with QJ getting 10:1? i dunno, but there's no reason to take this chance. are you afraid of your raise button?

if retarded villain 3bets and we've gotten it HU, hooray for us and we call down. if someone coldcalls, i start looking for the exit door.

[00Snitch]

Tyler, no doubt there are lots of hands behind us that we want to (and can) protect against. Even some better hands that might fold to a raise.

The problem I see is that there are so few hands villan is donking here that we are infront of. 99-66? 5x?

I like the idea of a raise if we have more than two outs when we are behind.

[tyler_cracker]

snitch,

i'm glad we agree about what to do about the other people in the pot.

about the donking villain:

[ QUOTE ]
The button (donking villain in this hand --t) in this hand is fairly LAGtardish, especially when I've raised preflop. I think he's checkraised me after a PFR at every opportunity regardless of holdings, then folded to further aggression

[/ QUOTE ]

i actually think his donk is a little suspicious if he loves to c/r, but our hands are tied because the pot is multiway and sizable.

anyway, the point is we're never folding to this donkey and calling sucks, so we raise.

don't make me bust out the bumper sticker, bitches.

[kaby]

[ QUOTE ]

i assume somewhat sensible players acting behind

[/ QUOTE ]

the 2+2 standard of 'sensible' is probably not the way a .25/.50 unknown plays ;-)

[00Snitch]

Not the bumber sticker! [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

I'm just so scared.

Best case here, is everyone behind us folds and the donker calls (actually, I guess the best case EV wise is if all the fish behind us call with 99-66 and gutshots and stuff, but the best case to make the hand easier to play is if they all fold).

We then bet/fold the turn and check behind on the river (or do we check behind on the turn and call one on the river?) right? Well, now we have put two bets into an eight bet pot. So we have to be good 25% of the time to break even (canceling out the times he folds and the times we bet/fold... this may be a stupid idea...), it feels yucky.

[Point Blank]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

i assume somewhat sensible players acting behind

[/ QUOTE ]

the 2+2 standard of 'sensible' is probably not the way a .25/.50 unknown plays ;-)

[/ QUOTE ]

'somewhat sensible' means --> isn't a complete retard ...

I don't assume an unknown is a retard or a any type of solid player ...

calling this flop without any type of valid draw is pretty retarded ... so we are looking at hands in the low garbage area (I can't assume this from an unknown player)

76, 65 from BTN are about the only hand that I would have concern for

[tyler_cracker]

snitch,

it's hard to provide a turn and river line when there is soooooo much poker left to play, but i'm never folding if it's HU against the retard.

[00Snitch]

[ QUOTE ]

76, 65 from BTN are about the only hand that I would have concern for


[/ QUOTE ]
Forgetting the guy infront of us for a second, KJ/QJ (maybe KQ) call profitably for one bet but not two. There is also the potential for better hands to fold for two bets (Ax, 5 < x <= 10).

I'm not disputing that a raise will protect our hand vs hands behind us. I'm just not convinced we are ahead of the donker often enough.

[ QUOTE ]

but i'm never folding if it's HU against the retard


[/ QUOTE ]
You and me both buddy! Hence why I think we can count on putting at least one more bet in. So I count two bets total going into an eight bet pot, so by my monkey math we need to be ahead 25% of the time to break even should we chose to raise the flop.