Post-Katrina New Orleans

[pvn]

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I think I'm making a fair point. The government has clearly lost (or refuses to assert) control over portions of New Orleans. The resulting vacuum has lead to lawlessness and violence, which is the exact opposite of how ACists theorize that people would behave in the absence of government.

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No, it isn't. There isn't some grand AC theory that says "take any random population, remove government, observe utopia emerge."




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I'll guess that the AC response is that the people are behaving in such a manner because they were "trained" by the government to do so, or some other such nonsense.

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I didn't know that NOLA had lost control of the City. The only abandoned neighborhood I'm aware of, the Lower 9th Ward, is still largely deserted. My understanding is that city services for most of the rest is close to normal. The only real period of anarchy was in the immediate aftermath of the hurricane.

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That wasn't anarchy. Again, New Orleans had all the government it could ever handle.

The police were there the whole time. The Government officials were there the whole time.

So what caused the uptick in violence? There wasn't an influx of new criminals that overwhelemed the existing government forces. The criminals in New Orleans were the same ones that were there before the storm.

So the same government was there, the same criminals were there. What changed?

The property owners left.

[Nielsio]

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I'm expecting capital investment to start pouring into this ACer's paradise any day now.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1606587,00.html?cnn=yes

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This claim is just as ridiculous as the claim made by the Bush administration a short while ago that Iraq is such a mess because of the failure of the free market.

[lehighguy]

Just like during the hurricane itself the N.O. government doesn't allow private forces to provide vital services that are seen as being part of their turf. Also, rebuilding efforts are stymied by governmental attempts to rebuild the city as they see fit.

Just as all those trucks full of supplies from Wal Mart were turned away from the superdome by government officials, legitimate private entities are not allowed to provide basic needs that the government is clearly failing to provide.

[pvn]

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Just like during the hurricane itself the N.O. government doesn't allow private forces to provide vital services that are seen as being part of their turf. Also, rebuilding efforts are stymied by governmental attempts to rebuild the city as they see fit.

Just as all those trucks full of supplies from Wal Mart were turned away from the superdome by government officials, legitimate private entities are not allowed to provide basic needs that the government is clearly failing to provide.

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QFT. This really could be the dumbest 2+2 thread attacking AC ever. At least when people call Somalia the "AC Paradise" they're talking about a place that has (had) no government. New Orleans is the poster child for government corruption in the US, clever statist propagandists figure "well this really shows how bad our position is, so let's just say it's what the other side is advocating even though it's a direct result of our own statist policies."



Maybe we should start calling Somalia the "statist paradise".

[Brainwalter]

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I'm expecting capital investment to start pouring into this ACer's paradise any day now.

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New Orleans has exactly as much government it had the day before the hurricane. More per capita, now.

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It obviously no longer has a monopoly on violence. And money being funneled by crooked pols to crooked contractors doesn't really constitute a government presence.

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But it does constitute ACer paradise?

[tolbiny]

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I'm expecting capital investment to start pouring into this ACer's paradise any day now.

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New Orleans has exactly as much government it had the day before the hurricane. More per capita, now.

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It obviously no longer has a monopoly on violence. And money being funneled by crooked pols to crooked contractors doesn't really constitute a government presence.

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So your saying billions of dollars going around isn't influencing market interactions?

[Msgr. Martinez]

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Just like during the hurricane itself the N.O. government doesn't allow private forces to provide vital services that are seen as being part of their turf. Also, rebuilding efforts are stymied by governmental attempts to rebuild the city as they see fit.

Just as all those trucks full of supplies from Wal Mart were turned away from the superdome by government officials, legitimate private entities are not allowed to provide basic needs that the government is clearly failing to provide.

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QFT. This really could be the dumbest 2+2 thread attacking AC ever. At least when people call Somalia the "AC Paradise" they're talking about a place that has (had) no government. New Orleans is the poster child for government corruption in the US, clever statist propagandists figure "well this really shows how bad our position is, so let's just say it's what the other side is advocating even though it's a direct result of our own statist policies."



Maybe we should start calling Somalia the "statist paradise".

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I agree that the corruption going on in terms of handing out government contracts is bad. However, that has absolutely nothing to do with whether the government has a de facto presence in portions of NO. In other words, the government may be handing out money ostensibly to rebuild and secure NO, but it's not happening everywhere.

[Msgr. Martinez]

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I'm expecting capital investment to start pouring into this ACer's paradise any day now.

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New Orleans has exactly as much government it had the day before the hurricane. More per capita, now.

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It obviously no longer has a monopoly on violence. And money being funneled by crooked pols to crooked contractors doesn't really constitute a government presence.

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But it does constitute ACer paradise?

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To be honest, I'm not sure what does, as the answer seems to change. I think AC paradise is a situation where government has done all the work of building infrastructure and wealth, but then steps back and allows the plutocrats to reap 100% of the benefits of its work.

[Msgr. Martinez]

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I'm expecting capital investment to start pouring into this ACer's paradise any day now.

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New Orleans has exactly as much government it had the day before the hurricane. More per capita, now.

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It obviously no longer has a monopoly on violence. And money being funneled by crooked pols to crooked contractors doesn't really constitute a government presence.

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So your saying billions of dollars going around isn't influencing market interactions?

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In the lawless and violence-plagued portions of the city, no.

[pvn]

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I'm expecting capital investment to start pouring into this ACer's paradise any day now.

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New Orleans has exactly as much government it had the day before the hurricane. More per capita, now.

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It obviously no longer has a monopoly on violence. And money being funneled by crooked pols to crooked contractors doesn't really constitute a government presence.

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But it does constitute ACer paradise?

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To be honest, I'm not sure what does, as the answer seems to change. I think AC paradise is a situation where government has done all the work of building infrastructure and wealth, but then steps back and allows the plutocrats to reap 100% of the benefits of its work.

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You forgot the part where rich people eat poor people's babies.