4/180.. AK in bb against 2 other big stacks - Page 2

JesseB_11 · #11 03-28-2007, 08:04 AM

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If you re-raised pre flop to like 2200, i think making a continuation bet on the flop is MANDATORY.

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Sorry I suck at posting, I was assuming both players called. If only one calls I make a continuation bet a high% of the time.

Valsuvious · #12 03-28-2007, 09:03 AM

I originally was going to reraise with it, and I had a pretty solid reputation at the time I thought. My plan originally was going to be to just reraise with it, but then I thought hard about it, and without position and both could put a nice dent into my stack. I had also just basically went out of two tournaments in the 15 min prior with AK against some random crap that someone threw against me.

Either way, I wasn't sure if I was happy of my fold on the flop against what I thought was a standard cbet. If MP didn't call the cbet then I would have and re-evaluated how I was sitting after the turn. I also debated on pushing preflop, but figured that if either of the two was playing a bigger pair, they'd call the push, and I wanted to see a flop and see what happened after that.

Either way, I would have won the hand had I stayed, but I didn't want to overplay my AK preflop. Ace on the turn would have given the pot to me had I stayed around. UTG+1 showed JJ and MP showed KQ for the win.

Beachman42 · #13 03-28-2007, 09:14 AM

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Either way, I would have won the hand had I stayed, but I didn't want to overplay my AK preflop. Ace on the turn would have given the pot to me had I stayed around. UTG+1 showed JJ and MP showed KQ for the win.

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First of all, results are rarely important in MTT Strategy posts. Second, your hind sight analysis is incorrect. With a smallish pot and only 6 outs vs. JJ & tp, dumping this on the flop via c/f is the correct play. Do you see why?

If not, get pokerstove and use it to calculate pot odds decisions at each decision point.

Valsuvious · #14 03-28-2007, 09:48 AM

No, I understood why it was the correct play at the time. I just posted the results for those that might have been wondering.

I was sure that the check/fold on the flop was the correct play, my concerns with the entire posting of the hand was what should have been my line preflop and then was my check/fold after the cbet by utg+1 the correct play given the small bet he threw out there

Mingdu · #15 03-28-2007, 09:50 AM

raise preflop ... and call that flop bet ... 400 chips to see 3000 and the 400 they bet tells me that you probably have the best hand.

That fold is brutal

Sherman · #16 03-28-2007, 10:02 AM

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raise preflop ... and call that flop bet ... 400 chips to see 3000 and the 400 they bet tells me that you probably have the best hand.

That fold is brutal

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I don't think. Besides, how does the tightest nit I know say this is a call?

It absolutely would be a call if it were headsup...but we have a caller in front of us. Callers aren't usually bluffing. This guy has something. If he has AQ or KQ we only have 3 outs are can't be sure which ones they are. Folding the flop has to be correct.

Mingdu · #17 03-28-2007, 10:13 AM

7.5:1 and with a puny little continuation bet I am not sure I'm not good right here although one of them has likely got a piece of the flop. I'm not sure I don't reraise here after checking the flop.

And it is nice to know I can loosen up my range a little when we meet HU somewhere [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

ItalianFX · #18 03-28-2007, 10:42 AM

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7.5:1 and with a puny little continuation bet I am not sure I'm not good right here although one of them has likely got a piece of the flop. I'm not sure I don't reraise here after checking the flop.

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This is bad advice in my opinion. If we call preflop, there is no way a checkraise on the flop will get a better hand to fold. From what I know of the 4/180's, you don't get much credit unless you instill the fear of a preflop raise into someone. The only way we can checkraise this flop is if we raise preflop, and Val already discussed why he didn't and I agree. Everything else is just chip dumping and pot-inflating. There is no reason to risk your stack with AK against these players. A preflop call is fine, a flop raise is not.

And when/if we do checkraise this flop and get called, then what? If we don't improve on the turn, we are still lost. We will probably be forced to fire again or go all-in on a bluff hoping that a Queen will fold.

Sherman · #19 03-28-2007, 10:46 AM

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7.5:1

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The key is that it is 7.5:1 against 2 players though. We think we have 3-6 outs. But in reality we may not.

Okay so I don't hate a call on the flop...but I still don't like it as it leaves hero in a weird spot on the turn if he makes an A or a K. As I said originally, winning MTTs is about finding good situations, not good cards. This isn't a particularly good situation for hero despite having (ZOMG) AK.

Mingdu · #20 03-28-2007, 10:49 AM

You don't think a checkraise on the flop looks exactly like a set? Sure it does.

So I get called and don't improve ... only if they have a piece will they bet again on the turn after I check. If they bet then I lay it down. No biggie. They check it through then I get a free river card.

400 chips to win 3000 isn't risking my whole stack. Even a decent reraise isn't risking my whole stack.

I'm not saying I go broke here ... just trying to win the pot that to this point is being contested for in a very meek manner