The difference between the 25/50 blind level and the 50/100 level

[pergesu]

In each of these hands I pop it to t125. Once you hit level 3, you can start making smaller raises, because they represent a greater proportion of the stacks (obviously). You'd be surprised how many people fold when you make it t125, even the SB who only has to call t75 more.

I generally would not fold to an all-in after making that raise, simply because the odds you're getting are just too good. The advantage to making a smaller raise is that it doesn't hurt you as much if all of a sudden two people go all-in behind you, and more importantly, you've got a smaller pot on the flop.

Small pots in the mid levels are good, particularly in the 800 chip games where you have less room to maneuver.

[Seadood228]

I'll take these lines in the 800 chippers as well. Basically I'll tighten up my range and push on this level. If there were more time/hands between levels 3 and 4 then I could see playing a little postflop, but in these types of situations I think you are better off pushing because your 13BBs will soon be 6. Also, it's very easy for a big stack to move you off the pot with low risk bet or slightly higher risk checkraise..

Basically I think it's okay to treat your 15BBs like it's ~10 and play accordingly, albeit a little more selective.

[Seadood228]

me too.. I'd like to know.

I could see the logic in 1k chip games, not so much in the 800 chippers.

[Taraz]

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In each of these hands I pop it to t125. Once you hit level 3, you can start making smaller raises, because they represent a greater proportion of the stacks (obviously). You'd be surprised how many people fold when you make it t125, even the SB who only has to call t75 more.

I generally would not fold to an all-in after making that raise, simply because the odds you're getting are just too good. The advantage to making a smaller raise is that it doesn't hurt you as much if all of a sudden two people go all-in behind you, and more importantly, you've got a smaller pot on the flop.

Small pots in the mid levels are good, particularly in the 800 chip games where you have less room to maneuver.

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I would tend to agree with this post. I'm not to say that I haven't pushed in similar situations, but raising to t125 has a lot of advantages.

It really depends on how much credit I give the blinds. If I feel that they are capable of restealing I would just push to eliminate that possiblity. But I don't think that the "average" 11-33er resteals that often so I like raising better than pushing.

[Taraz]

I just thought of something else. Does it make sense to anybody that I would rather have someone holding KQ in the BB call my preflop raise and fold to a cbet than have him call a push against my AT preflop?

I haven't really thought the situation through, and it's late so I may be thinking about the situation the wrong way, but the above statement is what came to my mind when weighing the situation.

[fluorescenthippo]

i know youre not asking for advice but i think that the right play in both of these is to push, the 2nd one being considerly closer.

[splashpot]

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In each of these hands I pop it to t125. Once you hit level 3, you can start making smaller raises, because they represent a greater proportion of the stacks (obviously). You'd be surprised how many people fold when you make it t125, even the SB who only has to call t75 more.

I generally would not fold to an all-in after making that raise, simply because the odds you're getting are just too good. The advantage to making a smaller raise is that it doesn't hurt you as much if all of a sudden two people go all-in behind you, and more importantly, you've got a smaller pot on the flop.

Small pots in the mid levels are good, particularly in the 800 chip games where you have less room to maneuver.

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I'm not seeing what advantage you gain by making a smaller raise. If you're not going to fold to an all in, shouldn't you just maximize your FE? You're certainly want them to fold. If 2 people go all in behind you, you have even better odds and it would be even more difficult to fold. Raising to 125 is easily exploitable where pushing is completely not exploitable.

Small pots in the mid levels are good when you have enough room to maneuver, but with only 660 chips in your stack, you don't have enough room. You make it 125, someone calls, and you only have 535 chips left. If you c-bet on the flop, it has to be all in.

[jmillerdls]

I think it is funny that this was posted because I recently made this change to my play. I was playing level 3 very similarly to how I was playing level 1 and 2, and never pushed there. I would add in 3xBB raises from late position when I was first to open however.
Since reading Kill Phil in early December however, I have started pushing in this level far more. My ROI has increased significantly since doing so. I think it's an enormous advantage to enter level 4 with 800-850 than it is with 600-650. That extra orbit to make a move is sometimes all it takes to make the $.

[pineapple888]

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I think Nick B wrote an excellent post a while back explaining why raising to something less than allin is better. I understand the situation you're in though, and I still don't do it (often).

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Do you remember any of the reasons he gave? I'm not saying my way is right, I just feel very uncomfortable raising anything less than all in, mostly because of the 100% increase in blinds.

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Well, I'll give some reasons:

1.) It's mainly about risk/reward now. The big problem is you are risking 13BB to gain 1.5 BB *at this moment*. Future blind increases do not change that equation. By leaving yourself some space, you give yourself the option to fold (if, for example, SB flat calls your 3x raise and BB pushes, or if somebody flat calls and the flop is awful for you).

2.) The fact that the blinds jump so much in Level 4 may make you *slightly* more eager to steal now, but you should always be thinking about accumulating chips anyway, and 75 is a decent chunk compared to your stack. The question is how to go about it.

3.) By consistently raising 3xBB, you leave doubt in your opponent's mind as to whether you have a monster or not, i.e., are you going to call a push or not? So you threaten their entire stack with only a portion of yours. This is a very important concept. *You* may know if you are calling a push or not, but *they* don't.

All in all, the only time I like the push here is if I'm against a total LAG, because it stops him from playing his games and hurting both of us.

[pineapple888]

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I feel like with that many BB's you should be raising it to 3x bb instead of pushing in these hands, just because the risk/reward is better. Then, if someone reraises you allin, you obviously fold these hands.

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The reason people use the 10xBB rule is because if you raise, then fold to an all in, you leave yourself crippled. You're better off pushing to maximize your fold equity.

Even though you have 13xBB, the same principle applies here. Look at my KT hand above. If I make a standard 3xBB raise to 150, then fold to an all in, I only leave myself with 510 chips. When the blinds go up, I'll only have 5xBB and I'd already be in desperation mode. I think it's much better to push and maximize your fold equity here.

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I'd much rather have 510 on L4 than zero on L3 [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]