More than 1st chop

[BadgerPro]

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I have my doubts as to whether you would have managed it in the $55k earlier.

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Yeah, I'm not sure if I could have but I think if I would have said you both get 6.1k (they both got about 6.25k i think) and I take the rest they may have agreed but it's just not something I would do (which is the reason I made this post I'm not sure where it comes from). They both agreed to the deal with me getting 14k really quick and didn't even attempt to get more. Also, both of their stats (from the DB) had them both as small stakes players so I'm assuming the money was much more important to them.

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Btw, I was the PS support guy who did your chop earlier Badger. Great deal and great win - congrats!

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Thanks! Like it's been stated many times PStars support is by far the best out there. Keep up the great work.

[Sherman]

Is it not ironic that you find it unethical to take more than first place in a chop yet you play poker against players who are clearly less skilled than you?

I'm sure you could point out differences. What are they?

[Sciolist]

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Is it not ironic that you find it unethical to take more than first place in a chop yet you play poker against players who are clearly less skilled than you?

I'm sure you could point out differences. What are they?

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They just LOOK less skilled than me due to variance.

[Sherman]

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Is it not ironic that you find it unethical to take more than first place in a chop yet you play poker against players who are clearly less skilled than you?

I'm sure you could point out differences. What are they?

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They just LOOK less skilled than me due to variance.

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Not sure how this answers the question. Are you suggseting that every player in the entire tournament was equally skilled? Somehow I doubt that.

[stevepa]

I feel the same way Badger, although I pretty much don't like deals period.

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If you do feel this is immoral, I think there should be other chopping related things that should cause you to feel immoral(ie. getting more money than a player with more chips, getting more than the average of 1st and 2nd place money when you have less than 1/2 the chips).

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These are pretty clearly different as what constitutes a fair deal depends on player skill, etc. But no matter how good you are, you can never have an expectation higher than first place (obviously). The only three constraints to a deal that I see are: No one gets less than they are already guaranteed, no one gets more than 1st place, the total amount paid out is the same as if there was no deal.

Clearly there are some pretty good arguments that getting more than first is fine, but I still feel like it's wrong in some way.

Steve

[NoahSD]

The whole idea makes me uncomfortable because it reminds me who I'm playing against.

That said, I grind out hours a day to take these people's money, so I'll take the best deal I can get if the money's at all significant to me.

[stealthmunk]

True ballers only chop for more than first.
[img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Nothing unethical about it, your opponents ability to lower variance is just as important a factor in chops as skill level and chipstack value as that is why people make chops (they are uncomfortable playing for that amount of money, in a high variance shorthanded situation, or they just want to lower there variance.)

That being said,
HYACHACHACHACACAACHACCAACAA

[Jurollo]

I feel iffy about it too, however, it isnt as if you are raping them blind here, in your scenario last night even if you pushed for more then first the other guys may still get a good deal for them as it gives them more then 3rd place money (the jump might be really important to them) and allows them to make more money safely. I don't think I would ever offer it unless it was in jest though and I didnt really want to chop.

[stealthmunk]

You guys who say its unethical are all clowns.
Hypothetical scenario.

4 handed.
Hero. 2mill
Villian1 200k
2 300k
3 500k

blinds 25k-50k

Payouts We'll call it a 4000 FPP sattelite to two WSOP ME packages. so 24k purse.

Villain 2 is in debt and is a busto degen playing FPPs and if he doesn't come up with 2k $ soon, he'll probably get his legs broken.

Villain 1 is 18 years old, and has no use for the seat for 3 years, and is also busto playing FPPs.

Villain 3 Is a live pro who really wants to go to the WSOP, but has to sattelite in.


This is a clear scenario where your opponents reducing variance can be quantified as a VERY high number. I believe at my FT where I chopped for more than first, one of my opponents, a 2+2er, had student loans to pay off. ESPECIALLY in the million, where you have to play for 30k more....and a lot of your 'bubble' edge shorthanded comes away when it gets moved to a winner take all format (people lose their fear) you are ridiculous if you don't suck every penny out of the clowns.

Not unethical guys, its part of poker. Sure my WSOP satty exapmle is extreme, and unlikely, but REDUCING VARIANCE is JUST AS IMPORTANT A VARIABLE AS YOUR ACTUAL EQUITY IN THE TOURNAMENT.

[KneeCo]

I see no ethical dilemma here.

There's no deception involved, any 'taking advantage' type arguments don't work because then the ethical breach is in no way a consequence of the amount being more than the first place prize, it's totally irrelevant.

In fact I can't imagine a good argument for saying that there is a problem here at all.

Seriously, 30% of you guys need to step forward here cause I'm totally confused.

Also, p5s sucks.