B&M Story: “Dealer, just two more chips and I’m even!” with deja vu - Page 2

pfapfap · #11 03-19-2007, 03:19 PM

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I hope their friendship is worth a significant reduction in tips.

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I don't know if you mean this snidely, but I should hope so. I think of my good friends, and if you said, "let us rape your friend for more money than he can afford, and we'll give you a cut!" I'd tell you to stuff it.

Edit to add: It's all situational, of course. I have friends who also gamble it up and will dump piles on the table, but they can afford it and are enjoying themselves. You're welcome to take their money... if you don't, I will. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

ThaHero · #12 03-19-2007, 03:50 PM

Nice post.

bav · #13 03-19-2007, 03:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I hope their friendship is worth a significant reduction in tips.

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I don't know if you mean this snidely, but I should hope so. I think of my good friends, and if you said, "let us rape your friend for more money than he can afford, and we'll give you a cut!" I'd tell you to stuff it.

Edit to add: It's all situational, of course. I have friends who also gamble it up and will dump piles on the table, but they can afford it and are enjoying themselves. You're welcome to take their money... if you don't, I will. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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There's nothing in OP's story to suggest that the loser couldn't afford the losses.

Further, dealers should not be treating their friends differently at the table than they treat anyone else. Doing otherwise is very unprofessional. The dealer does not get to tell a player to rack up and leave because they're losing. Ever Ever Ever. I'm ok if a floor person wants to at some point come take a drunk off the table once they cease to be able to function, but you don't come tell someone they're losing too much and should leave. And if it's going to happen, it needs to be the floor doing it.

pfapfap · #14 03-19-2007, 04:12 PM

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Further, dealers should not be treating their friends differently at the table than they treat anyone else.

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Oh, agreed. I was more commenting on the idea that losing a few bucks in tips isn't worth helping out a friend. I would hope anybody's friendship would be worth that. There are many reasons not to intervene, but money is not one of them.

private joker · #15 03-19-2007, 04:15 PM

There needs to be posts like this every day on 2+2.

Rick Nebiolo · #16 03-19-2007, 05:00 PM

Not sure when I can find time for a detailed follow up post (hopefully late tonight or tomorrow) but I'll try to clarify what the dealer meant when she said she and the player were "friends" along with a couple other points.

The dealer is an Asian woman and the player appears to be a wealthy older Latino gentleman. When she told me "But we are friends" (in response to my point that it isn't her job to tell a customer to go home) she meant/implied he is a "customer friend" i.e., a nice regular who tips generously and treats her well (meaning he's not too abusive when losing). I doubt she knows anything of his personal circumstances and I'm just guessing that he's wealthy based on his manners, attitude (he didn't seem to mind losing) and appearance. He appears to gamble often and seems happy when doing it; my guess is he isn't playing with the rent money (unless it's rent he's collected from tenants [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]).

The dealer and I only had occasion/time to speak briefly on three occasions over two days. She now understands that I'm not trying to get her as an individual in trouble but what she did was potentially very upsetting (to any customer who would connect his leaving with her comments, even if he would have left anyway - the dealer was sort of "results orientated" * in her thinking).

At this point I believe she (and about 50% of the dealers in town) wouldn't understand why it's a mistake/wrong to engage in this sort of conversation at the table. This is partly a result of poor training.

I'm probably delusional to believe that cardrooms should monitor this forum but it would be great if every manager, dealer trainer, and dealer coordinator in the business read threads of this nature.

I guess I got into more detail than I thought I'd have time for. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

~ Rick

* By "results orientated" I mean in a friendly conversation yesterday she said "since he didn't leave anyway why did it matter what she said".

Rick Nebiolo · #17 03-19-2007, 05:14 PM

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...The dealer does not get to tell a player to rack up and leave because they're losing. Ever Ever Ever. I'm ok if a floor person wants to at some point come take a drunk off the table once they cease to be able to function, but you don't come tell someone they're losing too much and should leave. And if it's going to happen, it needs to be the floor doing it.

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Edit to say I agree completely; especially regarding the last sentence quoted above (with the caveat it should be done privately, not in front of other players).

Quick related story:

When I worked the floor in the late nineties I had one "quasi-prop" in my section. He was great for the game (good personality) and it was clear he was losing about twice his salary even though he didn't get moved out of games like a normal prop.

After about a year we're pretty friendly, it's not busy so I ask him why he does this when it's clear he's losing. He told me loves to play but doesn't depend on winning. He gets aver $10K a month in outside income and if he didn't prop he would lose about $5K a month (at the 3/6 level!) and his wife doesn't like that. With the prop/host job he loses a bit more at the tables (he couldn't get up from a short game and did start games) but gets most of it back in salary so it's a net gain for him.

People have all sorts of reasons for playing and losing money and some of them are good ones.

~ Rick

bernie · #18 03-19-2007, 05:23 PM

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Further, dealers should not be treating their friends differently at the table than they treat anyone else. Doing otherwise is very unprofessional. The dealer does not get to tell a player to rack up and leave because they're losing. Ever Ever Ever.

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I agree.

However, people are human.

b

bernie · #19 03-19-2007, 05:31 PM

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I'm probably delusional to believe that cardrooms should monitor this forum but it would be great if every manager, dealer trainer, and dealer coordinator in the business read threads of this nature.

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I always thought this would be a great forum for them to read.

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At this point I believe she (and about 50% of the dealers in town) wouldn't understand why it's a mistake/wrong to engage in this sort of conversation at the table. This is partly a result of poor training.

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Part training, part human nature. Seeing the 'regulars' day in and day out they can form relationships with these people to where it can become less 'professional'. But I think that's the nature of any business where you see certain people that often.

b

AngusThermopyle · #20 03-19-2007, 06:08 PM

At least she didn't toss him the two chips before telling him to rack up and go.