Harrahs Kansas City ruling

[cardcounter0]

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now he takes 2 cards off together with 3 stuck on top of 4

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ONLY IN NIT ALTERNATE UNIVERSE. Hold a deck of cards, try to get one card underneath another to jump on top of another card as you deal them (without performing sleight of hand, or dealing seconds). Cards are solid objects. One card underneath another cannot pass thru the card above it, and come out on top.

Even more mind-blowing for the NITS, it doesn't matter. It is random. So you eliminate card 2 or 3 instead of 4 from the flop. It doesn't matter.

[Nate.]

CC --

What if the cards are sticky for some reason? What if the dealer is cheating?

--Nate

[cardcounter0]

Yeah, because it's not like I can take a deck of cards and deal off the top, bottom, or middle, or even make the Jack of Spades jump up and spit cider in your ear.

But anyways in Hold Em, when the dealer holds the deck and deals the cards into a pile to be turned over and spread for the flop:

--- The 4th card is on top of that pile 66% of the time.
--- If the 4th card is not on top of that pile, for the 33% percentile occurance, it doesn't matter!
--- And again, for the third time, if you want to reshuffle, then do so. Have a NIT holiday. Reshuffle it twice.
--- BUT THE OP's ORIGINAL RULING IS WRONG!

[StevieG]

CC0-

No need to keep this up. We're willing to blame it on St. Patrick's Day celebrations.

[cardcounter0]

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CC --

What if the cards are sticky for some reason? What if the dealer is cheating?

--Nate

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Yeah, if the cards are sticky then one card underneath another will JUMP on top of the card it was stuck to.
YAP.
That is almost as fantastical as thinking a Harrah's bad dealer is capable of cheating.

[cardcounter0]

Yeah, never argue with a NIT. Dead hand. Refund everyone's money. Do the entire hand over.

[Nate.]

Cardcounter --

Maybe the dealer put four cards down one-by-one. Maybe the dealer put two cards out and then the third "card" was actually two cards stuck together.

In one case the top card of the four-card pile is the "wrong" card, in the other it's not.

You can yell and use capital letters all you want, but deck-integrity rules matter, because letting dealers wave their arms and use "randomness" arguments opens up many cans of worms.

In my old dorm game we trusted each other enough to say "OK, it doesn't really matter, the dealer can just guess at a card," but in a casino that's a bad idea.

And I think we'd all appreciate it if you conducted yourself a little more politely around here, Cardcounter.

--Nate

[StevieG]

Amazing how CC0 and RR can both same the same thing (the ruling in the OP is wrong, the fourth card would be the bottom of the pile initially, then the top of the pile when turned over to be spread out) and still be arguing.

Which is exactly why a new flop should be spread.

[Nate.]

StevieG --

See my last post. The wrong card could be in different spots. Also sometimes the cards stick in funny ways as the flop is spread.

Another issue is that donators are often fanatical about getting the "right cards" out there. (I think any serious player has hilarious stories about live ones going to absurd lengths to preserve one random order instead of another.) We have an interest in keeping them satisfied.

--Nate

[StevieG]

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The wrong card could be in different spots. Also sometimes the cards stick in funny ways as the flop is spread.


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Understood, Nate.

Yet even when RR and CC0 make the assumption nothing funky happened, there is still a misunderstanding because one is talking about face-up, the other face-down. All the more reason not to try to recreate what card was extra.