Greg Doyle on Illinois

[Troll_Inc]

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I remember Gill drivin a new Blazer too.

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Maybe his grandma worked at the same car dealer?

[Case Closed]

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Wow

Link

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Yeah! Kick'em when they're down!

[MyTurn2Raise]

Here is what a fair, professional writer thinks
Herb Gould of the SunTimes*
Gould, while often the beat writer for Illinois is not pro-Illinois or anti-Illinois

I like the part about paid internet raving lunatics *cough* Doyle *cough*

Mark Tupper--very pro-Illinois beat writer
Lindsey Willhite
somewhat pro-Illinois beat writer

notice the difference however from the sensationalist, yellow-journalism of Doyle


BTW, Doyle's piece on Illinois wasn't the only hack job put out by cbssportsline this weekend. Parrish's piece on Arizona and Lute Olsen is pretty bad as well. Parrish usually sucks almost as much as Doyle.


for you other guys trolling me, the NCAA used all of its resources on the late 80s, early 90s Illini and came up with zilch. There was an article written on the cars that the players on the team had, nearly all of them were sh!tboxes. Please, continue your baseless accusations and rumor mongering.

[Troll_Inc]

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for you other guys trolling me, the NCAA used all of its resources on the late 80s, early 90s Illini and came up with zilch. There was an article written on the cars that the players on the team had, nearly all of them were sh!tboxes. Please, continue your baseless accusations and rumor mongering.

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I'm less interested in references for the above,and more that Self left for Kansas where they can recruit "bending" the rules, and Illinois wouldn't allow it.

If it's not published, it didn't happen.

[MyTurn2Raise]

see payments to 'guest speakers' (AAU coaches)

ok...it's allowable by the NCAA to pay AAU coaches to come in as guest speakers for such things as university sponsored youth camps as long as their pay is consistent with other guests. There are strong indications that certain schools are making inconsistent payments. There are also indications that Illinois won't get within a 10-foot pole of such things.

[MyTurn2Raise]

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Kruger was replaced by Bill Self, who had great success for three years before leaving for the University of Kansas. He had much going for him, and he left too soon for most Illini fans. However, even in that short span of time, he and assistant coach Billy Gillispie accumulated more than 20 "minor" recruiting infractions that our ever-alert Compliance Office discovered and self-reported to the NCAA.

Whether there was any conscious effort by Self and Gillespie to cheat is unknown. After all, most schools and coaches are unaware of all the complexities of NCAA guidelines. Perhaps they had never before undergone the extensive scrutiny required now at Illinois. Regardless, they probably have more freedom now at Kansas and Texas A and M, respectively, than they had at Illinois. Such is the nature of the Illinois situation.

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source

all off-the-record stuff that I have decent sources on that I trust:
when Self left Illinois, he got concessions from Guenther at one point about loosening up a little. Self came to Guenther and said Kansas is offering 'blah, blah, blah,' but I'll stay if I can get 'x, x, and x.' It wasn't all financial matters. It had to relate to the scrutiny on recruting practices. Guenther gave in to many demands. Turns out that Self was just playing Guenther so that he could go back to KU and ask for more. When Self came back to UofI, Guenther was pissed, realized it was an arms race at best and just Self bargaining for more from KU at worst, and cut off ties with Self. He kicked Self and his staff out with no more negotiations.


Bill Self is one of the worst hires ever. Ron Guenther should be held accountable for that big time.

[MyTurn2Raise]

the difference in treatment from a July 2006 article
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But there are still ominous signs on the horizon. Just this past year, the NCAA placed Illinois on a one-year probation for a "major violation." Football player Marcus Mason received assistance in the range of $2,500 from an Illinois supporter who was also a graduate of Mason's Maryland high school. Operating independently without the knowledge or approval of the UI, this individual's actions have now made Illinois vulnerable to major penalties should there be any illegality anywhere in its athletic programs within the next few years.

Interestingly, University of Kansas basketball player Darnell Jackson was discovered recently to have received benefits in the range of $5000 from a "family friend" in Oklahoma City. This revelation seems similar to the Illinois/Mason case, especially when one realizes Kansas head coach Bill Self has numerous long-term connections in the Oklahoma City area.

But in a move that should not be surprising to those who have studied the NCAA since the earliest days of Walter Byers, Jackson's receipt of extra benefits was called a "minor violation", so Kansas is not on the same NCAA watch list as Illinois. Both schools self-reported the violations and imposed suspensions on their players. But Illinois received a stiffer penalty.

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source

FYI-this stuff is on the record. Off the record is much uglier. If you had the connections that I had, you would agree.

[Clarkmeister]

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Bill Self is one of the worst hires ever. Ron Guenther should be held accountable for that big time.

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C'mon man, that's just crazy talk.

Krueger, great hire.
Self, great hire.
Weber, jury out but looking mediocre, mostly because of IDKWTI, otherwise he'd look fine.

Guenther's biggest issue was sticking with Turner so long. Hopefully he'll learn and Weber won't get a leash that long.

[MyTurn2Raise]

nah...in the grand scheme of things, Self was a terrible hire

first, Self took over a stocked program and got worse every year. He had a good shot at a final four his first year--elite 8. Then, sweet sixteen. Then, second round and eliminated with one of the worst gameplans ever as ND drilled 3 after 3 after 3.

Second and most importantly, Self had no desire to stay for the long-term. Guenther invited the snake into the garden. Self stayed just long enough to get buddy-buddy with some of the Chicagoland area 'players'. As soon as a job opened elsewhere, he was gone. He has then used these connections to raid Illinois for its talent. If Self hadn't come to Illinois, what school would Julian Wright and Sherron Collins be playing for right now?

The perspective needs to be more than what Self did as coach in his 3 years. The perspective is how it affected the Illinois program as a whole throughout time. In 2000, Guenther went with another fly-by-night guy who had no long-term intentions after Kruger. I understand why he did it with Kruger as he needed someone to rebuild the program and trade-offs had to be made. I don't understand why he did it with Self. Illinois was a top10 program, with good tv exposure, a fertile recruiting base, and huge alumni/network support. There was no reason to hire another 3-5 year guy instead of someone whose ultimate goal was Illinois. Turned out that Slick Willy used Illinois to open up a whole new recruiting area where he hadn't previously been that has absolutely stocked Kansas, while leaving Illinois more barren than it should be.

The decline of the program's talent level is due, in large part, to Bill Self raiding the Illinois recruiting area.

Hence, one of the worst hires ever.

[Clarkmeister]

You are being massively results oriented.

Kruger left for $5m a year in the NBA. The chances he would have left for anything else were slim. Heck, he built a national championship calibur team that he left behind.

Self underachieved with that team, but continued to build a monster, a team that was 6 points away from going 39-0. Do you seriously think he'd be anywhere else had Kansas not opened up? I don't. Simply bad luck where one of the great coaching jobs opened up. He'd still be here otherwise.