PCA big hand, day 2.

[betgo]

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raise pf the first time. its just such an obviously profitable play, because its such an easy hand to play. you raise and CB and often take down the pot. when you get played back at, you almost always fold if you dont hit a set, and you win a huge pot when you get played back at and do hit a set.

if you limp it should always be with intentions of calling a raise, so that part is easy. i'd just check/fold the flop because your preflop call gets a lot worse if you start floating on boards like this.

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I don't agree with anything you said.

Raising 55 from early position is not always best. You often get reraised or don't know where you are at OOP. I am not saying limping is better, but I would sometimes limp a small pair in early position.

In this case, I would limp/call, but in some situations it is a fold, and you can sometimes limpreraise.

I don't think this flop is an automatic check/fold. You don't know whether you are ahead or not, which is the same problem you have if you raise. However, there are various ways to play it, and folding is not always best. This is a relatively dry flop, so I would be inclined to make a play on the flop or turn or just call down.

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lol

so in this post you basically said "you can do anything, and its probably ok"

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Well, this is kind of a borderline situation preflop or postflop, so I think there are a lot of ways to play it. I wouldn't limp/fold to the preflop raise, but yeah there are a lot of reasonable alternatives preflop or postflop. I certainly think raising or limping preflop are both standard.

Thinking about it though, I don't mind a check/fold with J7 and a two flush, as it could make some draws.

[registrar]

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I just realized I had the flop amount wrong. He didn't bet that strong. He bet 8k, but the betting amount seemed pretty random at that point. (he just picked a bunch of chips and stacked them).

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I'm not enticing more barrels with 55 and so I'm not continuing unless I have a firm idea he will fold to resistance, or how he responds to resistance, or at least how he plays AK. Bear in mind that I don't play big buyin events, but you want to be stacking these guys with the best hand not pushing them off medium sized pots OOP, I would have thought.

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I'm not defending my play to that extent. I have obviously played this hand badly.

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I'm not really criticising. I'm just saying how I would like to think I would play it. As it happens, I know full well that this exactly the sort of villain and situation that leads me to forget that I'm playing for set value etc. etc.

[betgo]

The raiser cbet almost exactly half pot. I really don't think a checkraise is terrible if you had completely missed to flop. I know I got criticized for this, but checkraising, calling, and folding are all playable, and you could have lead out on the flop. Limping or raising preflop are also both reasonable.

[Dazza1984]

I prefer raising pf. As played i fold to villains flop bet. If your planning to call his bet on turn I prefer betting it before him. If you are raised you can lay your hand down easily. If he calls you save yourself money on river also.

[AragornX151]

I really think check-raising here is putting a lot at risk without a surefire enough read...leading flop is fine, but i hate check/calling...you're either reacting to a weak passive/player when beaten, or letting him catch up if he has two overcards or some weird gutshot or what not...and the worst part is you have absolutely no idea where you're at.

If your read is that he's weak, a lead out on flop makes a lot of sense, and you can give up if he plays with you (he doesn't seem sophisticated enough to stick with you with crap).

[registrar]

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The raiser cbet almost exactly half pot. I really don't think a checkraise is terrible if you had completely missed to flop. I know I got criticized for this, but checkraising, calling, and folding are all playable, and you could have lead out on the flop. Limping or raising preflop are also both reasonable.

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Check-raise is valid agaisnt some but I tend to think this type of villain too often calls anything he's raised pre-flop and then we've got a huge pot OOP and are two streets from showdown.

[AragornX151]

some more thoughts...

I'd just fold preflop after he makes it 5400. there are two active players who may have the same read as you on him and squeeze (if they're thinking players)or come along with great pot odds if you call. and just because this player is weak doesn't mean he can't have a real hand to raise 3 limpers; if anything, it seems more likely he DOES have something real here given your description of villain. so you wind up putting 7% of your stack in oop against him...at that point, you're basically NOT playing for set value, and have to hope to outplay him postflop. but this just seems like a poor time to make a stand against this guy. a hand that's impossible to know where you're at with unless you hit trips, out of position, and against a guy who's announced he has a real hand, and with two limpers still to be heard from. i think it's a pretty clear fold preflop given all this.

on the flop, given your action, I think you absolutely must lead here. this player doesn't sound sophisticated enough to play back at you with air so if he does come over the top, you can safely fold for sure. by checking, you still have no info on where you're at. the shaking hands from this guy seems more likely to me to be a monster that he didn't expect than crap, but could obviously be either....still, i don't feel confident enough to check-raise 25% of my stack with just fives.

[adanthar]

I fold PF 0% of the time, but when they start shaking they have a monster so I just fold the flop.

edit: although for some reason my hands get really cold, so I shake like 100% of the time...not sure if this is good or bad for my live game [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[AragornX151]

oh btw, given the shaking hands, i might not lead if I decide to trust the tell and just check/fold. but given that, there's nothing to think about given action.

[Cornell Fiji]

I check-fold the flop but given your reads you have to call down after you call on the flop.

It seems rare that he is 4 barreling with AK but thats why live poker is so much fun, if you have a read then make the call.

Its sometimes tough to comment on live hands on the forums because they are so highly read dependant and I think that this hand is a good example of that.