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#11
03-12-2007, 01:14 AM
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Re: NL50 6max QQ
PSR preflop or overbet it.
Flop bet is fine. You can fire one more barrel on occasion but this is suicide. I'd usually check turn/river and call less than .5 pot on river folding to anything else trying to catch a weak busted draw. 
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#13
03-12-2007, 01:28 AM
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Re: NL50 6max QQ
[ QUOTE ]
Plz tell me why we are betting the flop, thanks. [/ QUOTE ] There is nothing wrong with not betting the flop ... I once had a talk with Kaz, and he advocated not cbetting Ace high flops, as you fold all hands that are not ace hand, and so there is more value in not betting flop. Well against non thinking players this is perhaps true ... but I like to bet my AK's etc then they hit and so I do not mind getting caught in a cbet bluff once in a while. I am not the best pokerplayer around, so I strive to keep my system as simple as possible without much fancy. I basically just bet.
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#14
03-12-2007, 01:33 AM
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Re: NL50 6max QQ
[ QUOTE ]
Plz tell me why we are betting the flop, thanks. [/ QUOTE ] Why wouldn't you C-Bet this?? You have nothing to lose, you can pick it up right here, or get called or raise and just shut down.
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#15
03-12-2007, 01:35 AM
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Re: NL50 6max QQ
At these stakes c-betting an A hi flop with QQ and then getting caught isn't really gonna help you get paid off in the future when u have AK. If they have AQ and down, they're gonna call a flop regardless against ur AK.
Betting this flop is just spew. The only good fold u get is from KK.
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#16
03-12-2007, 01:35 AM
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Re: NL50 6max QQ
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Plz tell me why we are betting the flop, thanks. [/ QUOTE ] Why wouldn't you C-Bet this?? You have nothing to lose, you can pick it up right here, or get called or raise and just shut down. [/ QUOTE ] this sucks, DUCY
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#17
03-12-2007, 01:40 AM
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Re: NL50 6max QQ
I am checking this flop all day if we were in position. There was a thread about KK on an Ace Hi board a while ago that was instrumental in teaching me how to think about poker. I think that 42it and dbitel posted in it, but I can't seem to pull it up.
That being said, I'm not sure what I do out of position. The arguments for checking in position were: -We have a hand with showdown value -We never fold an ace on the flop (Who calls preflop with Ax to fold when they hit top pair?) -We can control the pot size -We can get value out of lower pairs on later streets I think that when we're out of position, we can no longer effectively control the pot size (especially in a 3bet pot) and it will be way harder to get value out of JJ or 99 as our range is really narrowed by the fact that we 3bet out of the blinds (unless you had been doing it a ton) I just feel like I'd be stabbing in the dark OOP if we check it. Jonyy, what's your line here if (when) villain bets? Check/Call flop and Check/Fold a brick on the turn? Donk/fold turn? Call turn fold river? Just an aside, for those conisdering metagame here and how checking turns our JJ-KK face up, I think that going check/call, c/rai on the turn would be a sick line. Thoughts?
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#18
03-12-2007, 01:43 AM
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Re: NL50 6max QQ
[ QUOTE ]
At these stakes c-betting an A hi flop with QQ and then getting caught isn't really gonna help you get paid off in the future when u have AK. If they have AQ and down, they're gonna call a flop regardless against ur AK. Betting this flop is just spew. The only good fold u get is from KK. [/ QUOTE ] Well as I said, against non thinking opponents there might be value in not betting, but even without going into a discussion of whether image matters at uNL, my concern primarily this. I do not intend to play uNL forever ! I believe that humans are creatures of habit. For example I have a tendency to autoraise 67s on the button if folded to me ... and then go Do'h, it is the table with the 50/10 donk in the BB that calls everything preflop. My point is, that we build up habits ... and I believe, that you should strive for a system that is as simple as possible by default. A solid ground to stand on from which you can adapt. And finally you use the term at these stakes. 50NL has plenty of fairly decent players.
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#19
03-12-2007, 01:47 AM
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Re: NL50 6max QQ
Xanta, Jonny
Stop trying to extract from a marginal position ... this is nothing you will never know where you stand and villian can blow you out of the pot at any moment with a large bet. There is nothing here ... move along. Make a hand, bet it hard ... but herelooking for whatever is just meh IMHO Cbetting is just as much about protecting your hand as it is about value, no reason to get fancy. No offence ... just my 2-cents [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#20
03-12-2007, 01:57 AM
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Re: NL50 6max QQ
Gelford it's good that you're trying to build up a framework for hands, but it's a really dangerous rut to get into. Poker hands have a ton of variables and so the raise, cbet, check/fold if I've got nothing bet if I do might beat uNL but when you do move up or play against better 50NL opponents, it becomes decreasingly less +EV until you're a losing player.
Don't cbet because it's easy. The easiest line, especially with OOP play, is often not the most +EV line and that's what were looking for. Johnny has done some difficult analysis on this specific hand that requires some thought and you've made a lot of sweeping generalizations. He's pretty much dead on when it comes to how his range reacts to your cbet and it's not what we want. I don't want to come off as an ass here, but this kind of ABC is not what the forum is for and is pretty dangerous to a players development.
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