100NL: Why do i want to fold KK pf?

[D.L.M.]

[ QUOTE ]
You wanna know a secret?

I have folded KK preflop. Okay, it was only once. And then there was a situation THE VERY NEXT DAY (against Berge of all ppl) where I wanted to do it again. And I would have been right. Again.

Am I gonna fold KK preflop against daladiesman or someone like him? Hell no!

However, there have been a bunch of times where I really, really wanted to fold KK preflop. And I've been right about 80% of the time.

And having broken my cherry by actually doing the deed once, next time I get that taste of bile in my mouth I will do it again.

So go ahead and fold KK. It's not the end of the world, the heavens are not going to open up. Nobody's going to kill your family.

Just don't make a habit of it!

[/ QUOTE ]
lol you bastard,
no im my early days i accually folded kk on a low flop LOL at me. this dumb [censored] was just playing ak like the nuts and showed his hand after i folded, i felt to much like a tard. and i think that i also folded it once preflop and a short stack call this guys ai and he had qq, and ofcourse alot of the time when i get ai kk preflop i know im gonna lose, ohhhh well.

[futuredoc85]

theres really not much too this hand i guess, i mean its scary for obvious reasons. when it comes down to it i need at least some sort of read this player was at least decent and i didnt have it so i pushed. now i have my read, and it only cost 1 buyin which is much cheaper than the shame of having to tell you guys i folded pre [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[raistlinx]

[ QUOTE ]
villain is 13/7 over 350 hands [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] his tiny 4-bet makes me want to projectile vomit

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP2 ($104.50)
MP3 ($30.30)
Hero ($100)
Button ($98.50)
SB ($74.50)
BB ($70)
UTG ($158.60)
UTG+1 ($124.10)
MP1 ($67.30)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $3</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP3 calls $3, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $15</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $35</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG folds, MP3 folds, Hero pukes and????

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought his raise was a 3bet? open raise = 1, raise = 2, reraise = 3, the re-reraise = 4. Is that not the standard terminology on this forum?

[Panic__NL]

BB is 1-bet

[raistlinx]

[ QUOTE ]
BB is 1-bet

[/ QUOTE ]

What? BB = 2bb = 1PTBB

[buffro]

I fold here he is 13/7 after all and doesn't know your lag status (according to you). Also if you notice he only raised 3$ first in MOST people at 100nl raise to 4. It seems as if he was inviting players in or wanting a re raise. Most weak players are scared of inviting allot of players in with jj or qq and would not make a 3bb raise imho with either of these hands.

[blunty31]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fold, you only lost $15 youre not pot commited, spend the money you would have put in this pot on a surer hand. Statistically 1 out of 10 times you hold KK some1 else at the table will hold AA, so why is it so hard to fold KK preflop against such a suspicias play?

[/ QUOTE ]


Your numbers are really far off. Given that you have KK there is a 4 out of 50 chance that any player will get dealt an ace, then there is a 3 of 49 chance that the same player will get another ace. The result of this is 12 out of 2450 times or 1 of 204.16. That is for an individual player. Divide this by 8 and you get 1 time in 25.52 times that you get dealt KK that another player will hold AA. This result is slightly off because it takes into account only one player being dealt an ace for their first card. However, if two or three are dealt there is minscule impact in comparison to this. The result is KK vs. AA happens about one of every 25 times you hold KK. This is a far cry from the one in ten you posted. Please refrain from posting statistics that you have heard from uneducated sources.

As for folding, I do not know that I like a fold here. People will be 4betting with QQ and the unlikely KK here also IMO and the better players might also 4bet AKs here. Its a tough read to make to put him on exactly AA. I think you could flat call and reevaluate postflop. If you spike a king then it become easy to felt from there, otherwise you might get to pick something up that leads you one way or another. A simple 4bet is not enough to scream AA. If he's a thniking villian then he could have anything remotely strong or even suited connectors here.

[/ QUOTE ]

My source for that statistic is HOH, I'm not a mathematician so I'll just have to take his word for it over yours.

[buffro]

I'm not a mathematician either but I think 1-25 seems a little closer than 1-10

[blunty31]

I apologize I just looked over the passage and it states when someone has QQ 1 out of 10 times another person will have KK-AA.

[CalledDownLight]

ALL: It is the button that 4bets here and not the initial raiser. They have already folded. Does that change any of your views?