What is a "Good" BB won per hand from the Big Blind

[BrassMonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
Generally speaking. You should play more passively postflop from BB.
I like to play tighter in BB defence but it does not have a huge impact on your BB/100 hands if you have 45% or 65% in BB defence as long as you play reasonable postflop OOP. If you play bad you should tighten up until you have a better BB/100 figure over a medium large sample (30-40k)






[/ QUOTE ]

Apanage, our stats are very similar, except that your aggression factors are way higher than mine. I've played 15,000 hands (I know, jack [censored]) of 3/6 6-max and made 1.44 BB/100, but I have the following aggression factors:

Flop AF: 2.11
Turn AF: 1.67
River AF: 1.14
Total AF: 1.73

Are these numbers cause for concern going forward? Am I being too pansified in my play? I am particularly sucky at making river decisions, even though those are supposed to be the easiest (maybe that's an incorrect notion?), so I'm sure that my river AF sucks. What about the other two numbers, though?

Thanks,

Brass

[Apanage]

I think playing the river is hardest. You are so often put in a position where you have been the aggressor all the way and suddenly you´re facing a bet from an opponent that very well could be bluffing with a worse hand.

I´m a bit surprised that you have a low AF since most players with bad BB/100 figures are way too aggressive OOP.

I don´t know what to say about your AF though since a low AF can be due to calling too much or not value betting enough.Most likely it is a mix of both.
If you win 1.44 BB/100 we can´t say that the AF is a big problem. Most big winners I know do have an AF between 2 and 3 though so I guess you should strive for an AF in that interval. How you´re going to get there? I don´t really know.

I

[BrassMonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
I think playing the river is hardest. You are so often put in a position where you have been the aggressor all the way and suddenly you´re facing a bet from an opponent that very well could be bluffing with a worse hand.

I´m a bit surprised that you have a low AF since most players with bad BB/100 figures are way too aggressive OOP.

I don´t know what to say about your AF though since a low AF can be due to calling too much or not value betting enough.Most likely it is a mix of both.
If you win 1.44 BB/100 we can´t say that the AF is a big problem. Most big winners I know do have an AF between 2 and 3 though so I guess you should strive for an AF in that interval. How you´re going to get there? I don´t really know.

I

[/ QUOTE ]

I, too, was thinking that it's odd to have such a poor big blind win rate when it appears that I'm relatively docile post-flop. I think part of it is that there were a select few hands in which I spewed big time in the big blind. Hopefully the number will be evened out over time.

Perhaps I do call too much. I think it's a function of my feeling more comfortable as a defensive player (i.e., bluff hijacker), as opposed to an aggressor. I may be wrong, but I feel I have a pretty strong knack for picking off the b.s. bluffs that seem so prevalent at our level. Since I'm not so good at folding when raised, I tend to slip into "this guy could have me whooped, so I don't feel comfortable betting, but I feel pretty strongly that he'll hand me his money with a worse hand". I'm guessing that this is not a winning posture at the higher levels, though.

-Brass

[djmeehan]

Brass, I think it's interesting that our overall aggression factor is the same but mine is higher on all the streets you showed. You must be much more aggressive than me preflop. I think my overall aggression stats stay comparatively low due to the fact that I defend my BB so religiously. All that calling of raises from BB keeps my preflop AF at 1.16.

Apanage, do you have a preset list of hands that you defend with that changes depending on the position of the preflop raiser and is it listed somewhere. Overall I am happy defending alot and feel that I do it well but would probably benefit from playing a few less hands. It's amazing to me that you defend 30% fewer hands than me as I am always thinking about the odds the pot is laying me. Your results definitely speak for themselves.

[timoK]

wooo,
you have an incredible low vpip out of BB and you have an incredible low lose in BB (I might just have learnt a lesson)

and:
sitting on the seventh chair at a 6max game doesnt win much money [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Apanage]

I don´t analyze pot odds preflop that much.I respect people that do but personally I think it is a blunt tool to use.
Being out of position through the whole hand is a big disadvantage and you have to have a significant pot equity or superior qualities postflop compared to your opponent to overcome that disadvantage.

I have some rules I use when defending my BB. I have had some posts the last two months about defending ranges against different types of stealers. Ýou can search on my name to find them if you interested.I don´t link to it since I suspect that some regulars are beginning to get tired of me talking about my BB play.

I also believe that BB defence hasn´t that much impact on your overall profit in low limits if you are an average post-flop player.

I looked into my figures and found that someone tried to steal my blind one in 4.76 times which means that I roughly face a blind steal attempt 4/100 hands if the tables is fivehanded in average.
If I defend 20% more of my hands and manage to just lose 0.40 BB/hand compared to 0.50 BB/hand when I fold it is not going to change my world.
It is worth 0.08 BB/100 in my overall profit.
That said I think if you have fold BB to steal stats of 65% or 40% don´t matters that much if you not had a history of getting into trouble postflop.
If people have that tendency they are way better off playing tighter.

[mik76]

This post is being more and more interesting. Since you are talking about AF i will use this post to ask for advices regarding my stats.

-------Raise---Bet-----Call-----Check---Fold----AF

Flop---8.78----20.45---6.31----37.41---24.21---4.63
Turn---4.17----28.8----9.32----34.49---20.17---3.54
River---2.36----22.38---12.04---43.61---16.11---2.05

I know that my flop and turn AF are terrible and so i try hardly to fix it. I would like to know if its because i raise or bet too much, if i dont call enough or a mix of two.

Thanks for advice.

Mik76

[djmeehan]

------raise---bet---call---check---fold---AF
Flop--10.9---30.3---15.7---26.1----15.3---2.6
Turn--7.0----36.6---18.2---25.4----11.0---2.4
River-4.0----27.8---24.7---34.8----6.8----1.3

Oddly, even though you have such high aggression factors in relation to mine, you raise and bet a lower percentage than I do so maybe the concept is misleading. I'm struck by the fact that you check and/or fold between 55% and 61% on every street and you almost never just call.

The reason your aggression factor is so high is because you call so little. (Aggression factor= raise%+Bet% divided by Call%). I think that there are many instances when calling is the right thing to do. Maybe you have a strong draw and want to keep people in the pot. Maybe you have a decent hand that may or may not be best. Maybe you want to induce betting. Occasional slowplaying of monsters.

My stats are somewhat skewed by the fact that I like to showdown a lot of hands but this strategy has been very successful for me at the 2/4 and 3/6 limits.

I hope this was helpful.

[mik76]

Ty Djmeehan, very helpful. My AF stats are linked with the fact i dont go showdown enough, only 27.42%, i know i should be above 32%.

[djmeehan]

LOL, I go to showdown 41%! I guess I am too curious or not trusting enough. Mostly it's because I play good hands (except in BB bringing us full circle in this thread) and if I'm building big pots with good hands I like to be convinced I'm beat b4 folding because the odds become increasingly compelling to pay off to river.