200NL - NF-combo draw facing flop donk overbet

[orange]

SHOVE

[shpanko]

OP what did the BB have?

[Dire]

I'm also curious why any/everybody is endorsing pushing. Unless you're putting a passive donk who decides to huge overbet a multiway pot on air/weakness, it's a very -EV push. And metagame aspects against the type of player who makes this sort of move... well. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] The third player coming along was a miracle that probably made this +EV, but that happens almost never in this spot.

[kolotoure]

It's not very -ev at all. We have FE and if we get called we aren't in terrible shape. Also, if we call the flop we are likely facing a turn bet that we can't call

[Jay Riall]

I see people overbet and fold to shoves all the time.

[Mossberg]

Dire, I never said he was a "passive donk".

And to say that it's "a very -EV push" is pretty far off. Based on his weird overbet, I think he will have a medium strength hand here much more often than a set or a str8. Against the weaker hands in his range (overpairs/tptk/pair+draw), our equity is actually very good. There is already about ~25 in the pot preflop, and we may even have a little fold equity (maybe he misclicked?).

[luckybacon]

62 in the pot plus 38 for our call. so its not that big of an overbet.

[Dire]

[ QUOTE ]
Dire, I never said he was a "passive donk".

And to say that it's "a very -EV push" is pretty far off. Based on his weird overbet, I think he will have a medium strength hand here much more often than a set or a str8. Against the weaker hands in his range (overpairs/tptk/pair+draw), our equity is actually very good. There is already about ~25 in the pot preflop, and we may even have a little fold equity (maybe he misclicked?).

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is alot different situation than, for example, you raising it up from the CO and getting it heads up against the same donkish type BB who then leads out - where you'd almost always be ahead or very close equity wise.

In this situation the pot is multiway, you were an early position raiser, the board is draw heavy, and he leads out for more than pot. I think top pair is at the absolute bottom of his range here (and probably the only part of his range that he doesn't call your push with). This looks alot more like a player realizing he has a good but vulnerable hand just trying to take the pot down or get it all in so he doesn't have to make a tough turn decision out of position on a scare card. He's going to flip up at least two pair here extremely often and you're going to be a 3:2 dog or worse.