Oh noes, JJ flops overcards oop

[Sir Winalot]

Actually he said:

[ QUOTE ]
most of the time he either has a straight or a flush here

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyways, I do agree that 56 and two clubs are a part of his range, maybe close to 30%. But still I think that worse pocket pairs, Qx and random missed cards that he's bluffing are there too. Thoughts on this?

[Vyse]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually he said:

[ QUOTE ]
most of the time he either has a straight or a flush here

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, did you even read my post? I said I GUESS when he said that statement the flush could make up the "most" (i.e. 60% flush, 20% straight), but that the point itself still stands -- the straight is not significantly more likely than any other standard holding.

[miniuser]

as played you have to check fold turn to any bet that isn't retardedly small. by checking the flop you pretty much gave up control of the hand.

dont even think about trying to represent anything, as you mentioned its 20nl and without reads you can't expect to have any fold equity vs top pair. If he has flush or straight he's obv not folding, if he has (any) queen he's prob not folding. as far as lower pp's and bluffs being part of his range, that is something read dependant and since you have no particular read there's no point in continuing with the hand. He isn't betting anything you beat on the turn and there's no value to be gained by you from worse hands.

[J. Stew]

you want to lead the turn now to protect against a lone club but then your line looks really fishy. you can't really rep a flush after not c-betting the flop and a pair of sevens would c-bet almost always, like you normally do with JJ.

so if you donk the turn an aware player might raise just b/c your line looks really weak, then you're looking at an overcard and a flush/st. possibility so you'd probably have to fold w/out a read.

as played i'd c/c the turn, though b/fing is prolly good too or maybe better as he probably isn't that aware of your line and c/c 1/2pot bets on non [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] rivers, c/f to [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or pot sized rivers.

[futuredoc85]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually he said:

[ QUOTE ]
most of the time he either has a straight or a flush here

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyways, I do agree that 56 and two clubs are a part of his range, maybe close to 30%. But still I think that worse pocket pairs, Qx and random missed cards that he's bluffing are there too. Thoughts on this?

[/ QUOTE ]

i think he usually bets those bigger on this board if hes decent. if you feel those are part of his range then you just need check and decide if hes capable of bluffing this scare card if he bets.