Final Tables

[Jay S]

If you have a wide range for shoving here, which is certainly reasonable, your move should be situational and not primarily based on your cards. A reasonably observant mid-tall stack in the bb will always call you when you're this short, so why shove 72o against him?

One point on the STT vs. MTT final table question: in an STT, you never have a situation with low Ms at a full table. Yes, there are lessons to be learned which transfer over, but there are MTT ft scenarios that never come up in STTs.

[SZEppi]

[ QUOTE ]
Mingdu: Not relevant at ALL. 1-table tournaments are completely different from a FT. There's a bubble, the payouts are top 3, the payout structure isn't nearly as top heavy, etc. etc. etc.

Trying to compare a FT to a STT is ludicrous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hahahahaha!

And what about two/three/five table tournaments? Whole different game?!? Maybe you think cashgames are more like FT's...

Good players play for wins in both STT and MTT formats (payouts are top heavy in both). In endgames, blinds are always huge compared to stacks, stealing and restealing become very important. Having wide shoving ranges in late position and tight calling ranges is also the same. Need any more comparisons?

Saying FTs are nothing like late game STT situations and you can learn nothing from STTs is just plain wrong.

[Cleverbeans]

Pushing depends on a lot of factors, your stack size is only one of them and although it can dominate your decision making if you're extremely desperate it's not the end all be all of pushing at the final table.

When I hit final tables or in the later stages of single table tourneys I start to aquire as much information on the other players as I can. Questions I ask include the following.

Is the big stack willing to call loose to take out small stacks?

How many hands can I see before being blinds out?

Am I likely to be dominated or have live cards? (I don't push A3o from MP for example - I'd rather have J9o)

Is someone else in worse shape that I can outlast for a significant pay increase?

Is anyone stealing more then once an orbit succcessfully?

Are some people folding to min-raises?

Is anyone laying down to reraises if they limp in?

Which stacks can I hurt and which will gobble me up?

Most of the tourneys I play in pay the top 3 heavily and the rest lightly so I consider survival to be my main goal similar to a single table tourney. As the table shrinks I don't really change much other then to say "Ok there are 5 people left, I'm on the button - what hands would I open with here normally?" and then go from there. Once I feel like I'm the only short stack left do I really start the "desperation" push plan outlined in HOH. Besides that I try to be selective as to who I push into and when I push.

[SilentNoise]

i think the people making comparisions between STTs and FTs are referring to the shortstacks relative to blinds. This is a scenario that is routine in stts. stt players have come to the conclusion the best way to analyse these shortstack situations is to use an ICM calculator. When playing an stt, you set the payout structure to 50/30/20. You change them accordingly for the FT. As far as i know, ICM is the best way of analyising tournament situations, while taking into account the different payout structures of the competition.