Hand vs El_Diablo

[Go_Blue88]

[ QUOTE ]
GB,

Also,

"2. EL_D would never push a 4 in this spot if he somehow has one, and prolly wouldn't push a 9 if he somehow has one."

those are both often false assumptions.

"1. From EL_D's perspective I might have a flush."

That's also a false assumption. I assume that there's no way someone can open and then flop a flush.

"3. EL_D would only make this flop raise with the A, a flush, a straight, or a set."

That's not true on the flop (wide range I could do it with there). It's probably true after I call the turn, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well at least assumption 4 seems pretty awesome!

I dunno, maybe my assumptions sound too definitive which causes a more defensive response. As alluded to, I think it's really easy for a player to convince himself that a tight player (that seems to have a negative connotation on these forums, but I don't mean it in that sense) will randomly decide to make a play in this situation; however, obviously you wouldn't lie...so maybe I gave you too restricted of a range. I shoulda began each assumption with "A TAG player prolly wouldn't," instead of "EL_D would never" (although that still prolly wouldn't go well since "there's so many different situations in poker, it depends, blah blah blah").

Anyway, that's interesting that you'd never put me on a flopped flush.

[luckychewy]

'Anyway, that's interesting that you'd never put me on a flopped flush.'

i think was more sarcastic than you realize it is...

i also think you are wrong with the assumptions that he would never push a 4 or a 9. in fact, i think the only way you lose this pot is if he has a 4 or a 9, i really can't see him having anything else(except maybe 88 but i'm not sure why that would c/r the flop here).

conversely, i don't think his hand range should too often include a 4 or a 9 given he c/r flop c/c turn. he's getting ~2.2:1 on the turn call, and if he has a 4 or a 9 that at least has any desire to put any more money in the pot it will usually be with a big spade. so, if he thinks you don't have a flush too often and assumes his spade outs are good(this should also assume he has little to no implied odds) he's a 4:1 dog on the turn with 9xX[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and slightly less than a 3:1 dog on the turn with 4xX[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

so, unless he is just messing around at lower limits(probably fairly possible) then he can't profitably call the turn unless he thinks he has some implied odds - and given there are more spades than straight cards(and more straight cards if he has a 4 then a 9) then i think he will probably have a 4 here fairly often. i don't think any bluffing hand makes any sense for him. so ya, i think u should fold, but if u did call i'm guessing u got shown A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4x

[anduril]

Forgetting your possibly false, possibly true assumptions, I doubt El D would give you 2-1 on the river when he knows you have a biggish hand if he didn't have you beat. Seems like he knew just calling the turn would be the only way to stack you on the river, unless he did in fact get there on the river. Never played him.

[TheWorstPlayer]

just reraise the flop. it's impossible to flop a hand better than a set and you'll get plenty of action.

[SuperPokerJedi]

[ QUOTE ]

interesting that you'd never put me on a flopped flush.


[/ QUOTE ]

Cos El_D flopped the flush!

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, that's interesting that you'd never put me on a flopped flush.

[/ QUOTE ]
When was the last time you flopped a flush HU? Yea, I've never done it either.

[Parlay Slow]

El D is obsessed with playing tight/passive and then engaging in FPS/weird lines to win big pots with big hands vs 2+2ers.

Therefore river is easy fold.

[snagglepuss]

haha so true

[Hindsight2020]

[ QUOTE ]
If I think it's slightly more likely that he has an Ace high flush, should I fold?

[/ QUOTE ]
if you think these are his only possible holdings, and that it's only slightly more likely that he has a flush, you should instacall

i think he shows up with a straight sometimes, for sure, though

i would try to get it in on the flop, and probably reluctantly fold the river

[El Diablo]

GB,

As someone said, I was joking around a bit w/ the flush line, but I'm mainly serious. For the most part, I just assume that people don't flop flushes HU. It just doesn't happen very much. That's why the follow-up assumption about the straight is false. If I got to the river and made a straight, I'll push there because hands like AA will often look me up after a goofy line like that.

As a number of folks have said, I really think you should jack this up on the flop.

Also, a couple of people have mentioned that you must have a biggish hand here. Maybe I screwed up with my read on you, but I do not assume that a line like this guarantees a big hand for you on the turn. After a checkraise on a flop like that, if I check the turn, I see people firing another barrel w/ all sorts of stuff.

As8x is one hand you beat that I could definitely have. I can't think of too many other hands that you do. Just not too many bluff hands get to the river in that fashion. Something like AsTx I'm either check-folding or CRAI on the turn. Maybe I value bet two pair like 78. Just not too many combos like that, though. Hands like 22, for example, I get the money in earlier.

Parlay's analysis seems pretty good, BTW.