Live $1/2 hand at Venetian...awkward stacks, OOP

Scorpion Man · #1 02-12-2007, 01:03 PM

$1/2 game with $300 buyins. I have about that and Villain has me covered. Villain seems like a reasonable player but is relatively loose in calling raises preflop. I have seen him play a nut flush slowly OOP, flat calling the darw, check calling turn when it hit, and leading the river.

UTG makes is $12, Villain Calls, one more call, I make it $55 total with two red aces. UTG calls (announcing its his last hand, villain calls).

I have not been raising a lot of hands and not shown down any bluffs...made one or 2 continuations and gave up...only been there about an hour.

Flop is T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] with 2 diamonds (I have the ace of diamonds)...

I bet $100. UTG folds, villain thinks, says "i have a lot of outs" and calls.

Turn 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I have about $150-160 left. Hero?

faded · #2 02-12-2007, 01:06 PM

ez push

SonOfWestwood · #3 02-12-2007, 01:35 PM

The only move is to push.

Scorpion Man · #4 02-12-2007, 02:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The only move is to push.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, I am putting in $55 at the beginning knowing that, unless i get real resistance from 2 players or an incredibly coordinated board that I am putting all my money in this pot no matter what? What I am struggling with is that it feels like it makes his call of my $55 close to correct. Should I raise more if this is the case?

I am bothered by this hand because, along the lines of these reponses, I felt like there was no way to get away if I was beat.

JohnAndersen · #5 02-12-2007, 02:06 PM

What do you think his range is after flat calling the $55? I think we are going to get called by KK, QQ and maybe even JJ if you think he is loose enough.

He can't profitably set mine here so I think we need to discount 88 and 66 here, not to mention discount any hand other than 1010 with a 10 in it.

Basically, there isn't much that he has here that beats you, so the question shouldn't be, "how do I get away if I'm beat?" It should be "How do I extract the most value from this fool?"

With the diamond draw out there I think push.

Scorpion Man · #6 02-12-2007, 02:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What do you think his range is after flat calling the $55? I think we are going to get called by KK, QQ and maybe even JJ if you think he is loose enough.

He can't profitably set mine here so I think we need to discount 88 and 66 here, not to mention discount any hand other than 1010 with a 10 in it.

Basically, there isn't much that he has here that beats you, so the question shouldn't be, "how do I get away if I'm beat?" It should be "How do I extract the most value from this fool?"

With the diamond draw out there I think push.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this player was capable of a significantly broader range of hands than the one you cite. FWIW, i was not worried about 88. I was worried about a ten.

FishSticks · #7 02-12-2007, 02:31 PM

What did you make of his "outs" comment on the flop? Perhaps he was trying to create a situation where he could push you off the hand if a diamond turned? Perhaps he was just baiting you to "charge him" on the turn? I'm curious what you think there...

79 is a longshot given preflop, so that turn is basically a brick. I don't know what else you'd do besides push here. Tough to fold a blank river getting 2:1 from the pot here, and if you're going to call it off might as well charge on the turn if there's a chance he's drawing.

If it's unlikely this guy is calling such a huge flop but on just a draw, I don't mind a check behind here to try to get the most money possible from pairs - as I'm not too worried about letting someone 2-out me.

Edit: Live play, what a bunch of garbage it can be sometimes. I frankly wouldn't be surprised if the guy had 79 diamonds (despite preflop) and was just telling the truth when he said he had a lot of outs, and then he spiked the sneaky 6 in your mug. You may want to post in the B&M forum as well if you haven't already - just since the game you're talking about is a far cry from Stars 200NL 6-max everyone here plays IMO.

knicknut · #8 02-12-2007, 02:08 PM

You'll also win the pot a lot uncontested, which is one benefit of betting out. The pot is about $350--if you check you'll either be faced with a 2.3:1 odds all in call or you'll give him a free card. Gotta charge him. You probably had the best hand on the flop, and you probably still do.

Djeorge · #9 02-12-2007, 02:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The only move is to push.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, I am putting in $55 at the beginning knowing that, unless i get real resistance from 2 players or an incredibly coordinated board that I am putting all my money in this pot no matter what? What I am struggling with is that it feels like it makes his call of my $55 close to correct. Should I raise more if this is the case?

I am bothered by this hand because, along the lines of these reponses, I felt like there was no way to get away if I was beat.

[/ QUOTE ]
It could be correct for him to call and try and crack your AA there (although I don't think so given the size of the 3bet and your stacks), but what's important is he is making a mistake against your range by calling here, as you should be raising with AK and other hands that he can't play profitably playing fit-or-fold postflop.

You can't just start putting 20% of your stack in by default every time you have a big pair so as to cut down implied odds, you just have to have a sufficiently wide 3betting range there.