ATs BB Scenario

[Alex424]

you're far too tight. ATs is about as easy as a BB call gets.

You have five to one after investing in the pot already - ATs is a great drawing hand (straight, flush potential) as well as made hand and it quite simply is too good to fold in the BB no matter who you are against

[HoneyBadger]

36% is enough with 3 players (you're getting 5:1, so you need at least 17% equity. Certainly ATs has 17%). It's ~7:1 to flop a flush draw alone, and these hands will always be profitable to call down. A ten might win you the pot, a straight...two pair.

Seriously, ATs is a raising hand, it's definitely good to call for 5:1 from the BB. If MP1 was loose I might 3bet it actually.

[James.]

[ QUOTE ]
A tight passive player raises from MP1

[/ QUOTE ]

you are often smoked. easy b/f. if the pot dictates a calldown so be it, but putting in more money than you have to sucks. IOW, i hate the c/r.

[Grease]

I don't mind your call PF. I'm not raving about it, but I certainly don't hate it.

That said, I really don't like your C/R. You should be trying to take the pot as quickly as possible, not bloat it with a mediocre hand out of position while tying yourself and everyone else to it.

Bet and hope the TP folds outright, leaving you heads up with the calling station who you can take to valuetown.

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if it was ATo then i would fold for sure, but ATs in the BB, is never a fold

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? What have you got going for you that the "tight-passive" player who open/raised doesn't? Is it that you think he has 99 & under? A9s and under? Certainly not QJs.
Maybe KQs?
I think you're dominated the majority of the time here and suited cards turn into flushes 5 times out of a 100.

"tight-passive" open/raising to me, means 88+/AT+/KQs, meaning you're a 36/64 Dog. If he also plays KQo with an open/raise you're a 40/60 Dog. Plus, you're OOP.

Call me Tighty, but I'm muckin.

[/ QUOTE ]

you don't have to be 'ahead' of the PFR to call getting 5-1. For instance, if you have 89s here, you should call, even though you are losing to his whole range right now.

folding PF is retarded.

I like the flop c/r once you have 2 players committed. If the PFR 3bangs the flop, then call the 3bet, and c/f the turn.

If he just calls, then just bet/fold every street unless a T hits.

[UtzChips]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if it was ATo then i would fold for sure, but ATs in the BB, is never a fold

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? What have you got going for you that the "tight-passive" player who open/raised doesn't? Is it that you think he has 99 & under? A9s and under? Certainly not QJs.
Maybe KQs?
I think you're dominated the majority of the time here and suited cards turn into flushes 5 times out of a 100.

"tight-passive" open/raising to me, means 88+/AT+/KQs, meaning you're a 36/64 Dog. If he also plays KQo with an open/raise you're a 40/60 Dog. Plus, you're OOP.

Call me Tighty, but I'm muckin.

[/ QUOTE ]

you don't have to be 'ahead' of the PFR to call getting 5-1. For instance, if you have 89s here, you should call, even though you are losing to his whole range right now.

folding PF is retarded.

I like the flop c/r once you have 2 players committed. If the PFR 3bangs the flop, then call the 3bet, and c/f the turn.

If he just calls, then just bet/fold every street unless a T hits.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am calling with 89s,76s,65s,54s. Those are no gap connectors and out of "tight-passive" players playing range, so I most likely have live cards even with 89s.

I am also calling with JTs.

With those max stretch connectors, I have 11.8% chance of flopping a str8 or open ended str8 & 33% of flopping those or a gut shot. Some of those times, I'll flop top pair and open ended str8 draw.

I also have 10.94% chance of flopping a 4-flush.
The odds of flopping a 4-flush are 8.14:1, not 7:1 as suggested by another poster. This includes those times a pair shows on board. Imagine the action possible with KKQ/KQQ/QJJ/KJJ etc. Even if it kills the action, the redraws that are possible if you make your str8 on the Turn.

Then there are those times that kind of flop causes 1 opponent to fold and you end up getting very slim overlay on pot odds to see the River.

I need 1 more player, not including the SB, to make this an insta-call for me. Reason: I see "weak-tight" players having my ace dominated a decent amount of the time. The only hands I have 2 overcards to are 99/88.

You need KQJ to fill in your str8, and if the Flop contains two of them, it could get expensive.

[FatedEquity]

[ QUOTE ]
I like the flop c/r once you have 2 players committed. If the PFR 3bangs the flop, then call the 3bet, and c/f the turn.

If he just calls, then just bet/fold every street unless a T hits.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, this was pretty much my plan. I check-raised because MP1 will c-bet a lot of hands in his range here. Even most tight-passives will c-bet big underpairs like KK on this flop when checked to against two players; it would take someone extremely timid to check this through, I believe. Combined with the fact that I'm probably way ahead of the button's range, I think a c/r has its merits. Generally, I'm not a fan of playing this hand out of tempo by donking this flop.