AC is just a game of words - Page 2

hmkpoker · #11 02-10-2006, 12:35 AM

I don't even know how to classify an argument like that.

Shouldn't humans be working toward something better? Shouldn't we be trying to improve our current state? Don't we need a plan? Isn't the current system a failed plan considering what the cost of living could be?

BrickTamlin · #12 02-10-2006, 12:36 AM

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Hey I know it don't work like it should. You know what the problem is? People. You know why Communism failed? People. You know why AC wouldn't work? People.

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Fact is, what we have right now, right here in the US is the best it's ever been, and maybe the best it ever will be.

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That's a silly leap. Just because the ideal of AC has to deal with the reality of people (as does any system), doesn't mean it can't be a better system than the status quo. You have presented nothing resembling a logical argument, but rather a position, some irrelevant jibberish about people, and a conclusion which coincidentally matched your initial position.

Nielsio · #13 02-10-2006, 05:27 AM

Why would you possibly assume a free market has prisons?!!?

ElliotR · #14 02-10-2006, 08:19 AM

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The difference is coercion. The state's money come from the people, sure. Because the state has lots of dudes with guns who will kill the people if they don't give it up.

And it doesn't matter how many prisons there are. If the market will support 12, then sure. If not, then no. Your local community probably would not pay for 12 prisons run by different companies. But if your community wants to do that, they are free to do so.

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"My community"?????? How the hell is "my community" supposed to make collective decisions that don't run into a free rider problem in an AC society?

Please. If you want to propose this grand vision, have at it. My when it starts depending on what a "community wants to do" you have seriously gone off the rails.

Sifmole · #15 02-10-2006, 11:09 AM

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Quick Check and a Wawa...

Whereabouts in New Jersey are you from? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Flemington -- you nearby, or have you escpaed from New Jersey?

Borodog · #16 02-10-2006, 05:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hey I know it don't work like it should. You know what the problem is? People. You know why Communism failed? People. You know why AC wouldn't work? People.

Whatever genius sounding scheme of governing the human race you come up with, it will never work the way you think. The problem is always the same. People. You can't remove people from the equation. Just like all the laws and all the lawyers and special prosecutors in the world can't prevent government from being corrupt and wasteful in the US, and just like it is impossible to for human beings to live up to Marx's ideals, so to will people make the laws of capitalism fail under AC. You cannot remove humanity from the equation.

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Anarchocapitalism doesn't seek to "remove humanity from the equation." In fact, the results of anarchocapitalism are logically deduced from axioms of human nature. All other systems seek to change man's nature. Only AC recognizes it and is derived directly from it.

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Fact is, what we have right now, right here in the US is the best it's ever been, and maybe the best it ever will be.

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This is demonstrably not the case. You are attributing the fruits of capitalism and technology (enabled by capitalism) to the form of government. It is despite our form of government that we are so prosperous.

madnak · #17 02-10-2006, 05:57 PM

The free rider problem?

A free market provides disicentives toward free riders. A government actually provides incentives. If the people in your community want to shoot themselves in the foot, either suck it up or find a better community.

AC claims to maximize efficiency, not to optimize it. If you know of a better solution I'd love to hear it, but I think this is a red herring.

Or perhaps you fail to understand the advantages of collaboration. I'm not sure I can explain them to you. I'll keep choosing "100," and you keep choosing "2," and we'll see who ends up better off.

Brainwalter · #18 02-10-2006, 06:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The difference is coercion. The state's money come from the people, sure. Because the state has lots of dudes with guns who will kill the people if they don't give it up.

And it doesn't matter how many prisons there are. If the market will support 12, then sure. If not, then no. Your local community probably would not pay for 12 prisons run by different companies. But if your community wants to do that, they are free to do so.

[/ QUOTE ]

"My community"?????? How the hell is "my community" supposed to make collective decisions that don't run into a free rider problem in an AC society?

Please. If you want to propose this grand vision, have at it. My when it starts depending on what a "community wants to do" you have seriously gone off the rails.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your community makes the decisions he's referring to by the mechanism of the market. It's the same way the community decides the price of a loaf of bread and the number of gas stations and grocery stores in town. He is OBVIOUSLY not referring to any kind of central community planning agency.

Borodog · #19 02-10-2006, 06:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The difference is coercion. The state's money come from the people, sure. Because the state has lots of dudes with guns who will kill the people if they don't give it up.

And it doesn't matter how many prisons there are. If the market will support 12, then sure. If not, then no. Your local community probably would not pay for 12 prisons run by different companies. But if your community wants to do that, they are free to do so.

[/ QUOTE ]

"My community"?????? How the hell is "my community" supposed to make collective decisions that don't run into a free rider problem in an AC society?

Please. If you want to propose this grand vision, have at it. My when it starts depending on what a "community wants to do" you have seriously gone off the rails.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your community makes the decisions he's referring to by the mechanism of the market. It's the same way the community decides the price of a loaf of bread and the number of gas stations and grocery stores in town. He is OBVIOUSLY not referring to any kind of central community planning agency.

[/ QUOTE ]

You get 3 gold stars.

madnak · #20 02-10-2006, 07:27 PM

Ah, yes. Presumably those who pay will get greater benefits that those who don't. Maybe a "free rider" could use the roads, but there would be special wider lanes that only paying drivers would be able to use.

I'm not a big authority on how this would work, particularly with regard to prisons. Honestly I think serious criminals would likely just be shot. Not necessarily humane, but it is better for everyone involved than paying for a lifetime of imprisonment. Lesser criminals might have to pay fines. Borodog would know much more about the specifics.