What Does Mrs. ep Have, and What Does Mrs. ep Need to Call? FT 100

[epdaws]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I allowed to say I hate Mrs epdaws line on both hands now that I know she was villain and know her hand?

Relying on players folding overpairs, TPTK doesn't seem like a good idea to me. For both of those hands you only get called by bettor hands and fold worse.

[/ QUOTE ]

I stand by it. Her range to make that move in the first hand includes the following (I shaped this range after asking her when she would make this play): sets, straights, two pair, pair+draw. I told her she should include a tricky trappy AA and KK as well. Her move has tremendous FE against a hand like TT. She is going to make the best hand fold quite a bit with that move.

Second hand, her range includes a made flush, a set, sometimes two pair, and pair+draw. Again, Villain had to pray that she had the very bottom of that range, and then dodge her river outs.

My point is that, yes, we're asking a lot if we think 2p2ers can fold. Most players suck. Those calls sucked. But she made me proud when she showed me those hands! I think they are very definitely +EV.

Do others disagree?

[epdaws]

I should add that Mrs. epdaws says that limitnl was a nice person at the table, though she still hated the call. I don't know either of the opponents personally. If limitnl is online, I'd love to hear more on his thoughts regarding my wife's play and why he called.

[PhatPots]

hand 1, you need a set or to have the straight. Assuming the player is good, he isn't overbetting like that with a pair of tens usually. You were the raisor preflop and he bets into you? He hopes you call him with a bigger pair. If I see him do this a few times, then I am gonna call this with AA-QQ.

Hand 2, you need either AQ or better, a flush. AK is a bit iffy, If you have AK with the ace of spades, then I call.

[PhatPots]

No, hand 1 is not +EV. Usually players at those limits will call with a bigger pair. Trying to justify this by saying that the other guy "should" fold is bad poker. Hand 2, I is a marginal situation. You don't have as much FE in these situations as you think esp. at these limits.

This is an example of being very LAGGY

[epdaws]

[ QUOTE ]
No, hand 1 is not +EV. Usually players at those limits will call with a bigger pair. Trying to justify this by saying that the other guy "should" fold is bad poker. Hand 2, I is a marginal situation. You don't have as much FE in these situations as you think esp. at these limits.

This is an example of being very LAGGY

[/ QUOTE ]

Mrs. ep is LAGGY! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I don't have time to do the math, but she doesn't need a mountain of FE to make the plays +EV. She needs a good helping of it, sure, but I think she's got the FE she needs. I think the math would support it.

And remember, these were not two random donks. These were players whom my wife knew to be 2p2ers, and every person who responded in this thread said they would fold with the hands that Villains held here.

[ValarMorghulis]

I'm thinking that she should remove the top-pair and draw hands from the range of hands that she does this with. Because for these particular hands, most of the hands you fold out, you are beating anyway. The few hands that beat you which might fold, which maybe should fold, sometimes call anyway.

Even if the lines are +EV, I don't think they are optimal for these particular hands.

[epdaws]

[ QUOTE ]
Even if the lines are +EV, I don't think they are optimal for these particular hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Valar,

What's your line with the 97 hand? How about the AJ hand?

[jd2b2006]

EP...why did Mrs. EP check flop in hand 2? I doubt she checks flop and turn with a set or two pair on that board, unless the two pair was AsQx. But I agree her hand looks like a made flush or exactly what she had.

BTW, villain's call in hand 1 is atrocious.

[epdaws]

[ QUOTE ]
EP...why did Mrs. EP check flop in hand 2?

[/ QUOTE ]

I will have to ask her when I get home, though I can imagine the response. She strongly dislikes playing big pots OOP with TPMK or worse. I would guess she felt something along the lines of "I hate AJ and should have folded preflop" -- something acerbic like that. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[marvin_1935]

her line in hand 1 is not all that laggy. any decent tag (and i believe that was her read) knows to fold over pairs to her line on the flop. calling w/ TT to a b/3bai line is a huge leak.