Pro Poker Money. Where does it come from?

[SplawnDarts]

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I've been interested in this question for a while. I've also been interested in some related questions: does more money come in at the top of the poker pyramid or at the bottom. Does money tend to flow upward or downward. Etc...


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The answer is that money comes in at all levels, from 1/2 & mutitable satalite fish to 10,000/20,000 fish. The majority of it comes in at the bottom though. It only moves up the pyramid, but some of it leaves the pyramid at each level due to rake & winning players spending part of their bankroll.

[Stake Monster]

It comes from people who lose their own money. Simple.

At the upper levels you could bring in the concept of backers in the picture as well.

[JustBlazed]

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It is an unpleasant, but true, fact that a substantial portion of the money circulating the poker economy is dirty money. We are indirectly making money from crime because so much of the money that flows into the poker economy is profit from drugs and other crime. I would go so far as to suggest that making a living at poker might be almost impossible if it were not for this huge injection of crime money into the poker economy.

It is poker's dirty secret.

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Oh no, not drugs! QUICK, the morality police are out to get me!

Do we have any type of proof on this....or is this just your opinion? Is someone watching too much "Rounders"?

My bet would be that a majority of cash online comes from kids stupid enough to pony up a credit card for $5k and lose it in a few hands playing $50/100 NL tables.

Please see Exibit A

[JocK]

Would be interested to see some rough estimates on this. Taking into account all elements relevant to the global poker economy (things like total number of players worldwide, rake effects, earnings before tax of various poker sites, etc. etc.), what amount does an average poker player lose per annum?

[smbruin22]

i think there is a reasonable amount of staking going on too, and people who simply won their bankroll..

curious about tournament players... how many of them are being staked? and i don't mean the top 10 or 20 players. i mean the top 100-200 players.

[SplawnDarts]

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It is an unpleasant, but true, fact that a substantial portion of the money circulating the poker economy is dirty money. We are indirectly making money from crime because so much of the money that flows into the poker economy is profit from drugs and other crime. I would go so far as to suggest that making a living at poker might be almost impossible if it were not for this huge injection of crime money into the poker economy.

It is poker's dirty secret.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh no, not drugs! QUICK, the morality police are out to get me!

Do we have any type of proof on this....or is this just your opinion? Is someone watching too much "Rounders"?

My bet would be that a majority of cash online comes from kids stupid enough to pony up a credit card for $5k and lose it in a few hands playing $50/100 NL tables.

Please see Exibit A

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There's definitly criminal money in poker, although less than there used to be.

Remember: Stu Unger won 2 WSOP main events while openly bankrolled by the NY mob.

BTW, isn't your bank robber an EXAMPLE of criminal money & poker?

[Reef]

big tournament winners
fish
rich people

[PantsOnFire]

I almost entirely agree with Splawndarts.

I'll start with your direct question first. I think most of the pro's money comes from TV sponsorship and advertising in large tournaments (as well as the entry fees from players who have no chance). As well, I think some of their income comes from cash games against bad rich players and players who have moved up a level and aren't doing so well.

In general, this is how I believe poker money flows:

First, there is a pyramid much like the Amway pyramid type of scheme. The lower level players are donators and their donations filter upwards through players that collect at a low level and donate at a higher level. The lower the level, the more players there are at that level, thus the pyramid analogy.

Second, now that TV is a factor, there is advertising and sponsorship revenue. So you can be sure that the million dollars that Daniel Negranau brought to high stakes poker was from a WPT win which was subsidized by sponsorships and advertising dollars.

Third, within the pyramid of poker, there are lots of players that don't start at the bottom but rather insert themselves into the level of the pyramid that they can afford, regardless of their skill. So I would say Gerry Buss is a good example of this.

And just to add a disclaimer, I am by no means certain of this and ot could be total shiite. It is my best guess.

[DigitalDeuce]

Of course there is going to be "dirty money" in poker. It's been a seedy backroom game for a very, very long time. In an industry that is so cash-rich, to think there isn't drug money and laundering going on is simply being blind. Convieniently loosing $50,000 here or $20,000 gambling is good way to hide dirty cash from the IRS.

[mvdgaag]

All money is dirty, but unless the game also is, there's no need to feel bad about it. If my grocer has drug money and he gives it to me as change for groceries, than what's the problem?
Don't forget a lot of it also comes from the business around poker. All the poker books, chips, tables, cards, etc are a big business run by people mostly playing poker as well. These people donate. So when you buy a pokerbook there's a big chance that money will get to circulate in the poker economy.
By far the most of it comes from the starting and losing players at the complete bottom though. And some comes from people moving up too quickly (this was aquired mostly on the bottom, so only the new deposits count).

Just how I think it is.