UB 2/4 Top Two on a Connected Board

[ncskiier]

Good points, Shane. But I think you're giving villian way to much credit.

If UB is anything like FT, he's limping utg w/ possibly any two, pp, connectors, suited paint, etc.

I feel like your raise here would not only exploit your equity edge and force the blinds to, somewhat, define their hands, but it also gives you more options after the flop.

And I would never limp KQs or TT from EP. Limping encourages limping and these are hands that I don't like to let go of on a flop of KhTh9h with a reraise and 3bet behind me. But that's me and I'm not very good. LOL.

[bernie]

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And in this hand, the BB, with the raise and flop bet, pretty much announced his hand as AK. If I raise and he only calls, I'm in trouble if I only hit a king. Call it "calling for information."

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It's called results oriented thinking.

You raise this preflop as an isolation move against a weak player. KJo plays better HU than multiway. Just because the BB happened to have AK this hand doesn't mean you don't raise this in this spot. Most of the time he won't have AK.

You're raising both to get the blinds out and for value because your hand is likely better than the limpers.

b

[bernie]

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Instead of raising QJs from MP, I'd rather try and induce a call or two, then
let the button sweeten the pot by raising his AJ

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You really want to play QJs against AJ for 2 bets preflop OOP?

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you're going to miss most of the time, making these playbacks quite annoying.

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Then learn to play these spots better.

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-With the limp, you can represent a far wider range of hands, and I find this makes my flop bluffs far more successful.

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Actually, if you're raising enough in this spot preflop your range isn't that much wider. And in these games, they'll still call you down and try and make moves regardless of whether you've raised or not.

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With a raise, you'll typically get credit for AK/AQ ... By limping unpaired cards, I find I can more successfully represent any A, K,

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You're kind of all over the road here. You represent these more by raising preflop. Especially since most will raise with one of these preflop when they're 2nd in on the button.

b

[shane88888]

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You really want to play QJs against AJ for 2 bets preflop OOP?

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If I feel I can induce a call or two before the raise, then absolutely. If the game is turbotight, then it's a raise.

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Actually, if you're raising enough in this spot preflop your range isn't that much wider. And in these games, they'll still call you down and try and make moves regardless of whether you've raised or not.

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My point was I find waaaay too often ANY, repeat, ANY open raise is treated as an obvious steal. I'm talking above over-aggressive poor players here. Limps seems to get more respect.

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You're kind of all over the road here. You represent these more by raising preflop. Especially since most will raise with one of these preflop when they're 2nd in on the button.

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I might represent an A or K by raising PF, but my point is that, by not raising, I have more success representing KQ/QJ/KT/QT/JT/T9/Axs/88/77/etc., particularly against weak players.

[Bill C]

Shane,

FWIW, You said you "weren't paying attention." Apparently you weren't in this thread either. Did you happen to notice how many posts Bernie has? He is one of the very best players and posters on this Forum. He's trying to help you. If I were you, I'd "pay attention."

bc

[brettbrettr]

Raise pre-flop. I might also call the flop 3-bet and raise the turn.

[brettbrettr]

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- Tons of blinds treat ANY open-raise like an obvious steal, and respond by calling down any piece of the board, check-raising the flop w/ air, etc. In this HU situation, you're risking a lot of bets to win a small pot. With AK/KQ/KJ/etc, you're going to miss most of the time, making these playbacks quite annoying. You see these fools go to war over the blinds all the time; I'd rather make a hand (for cheap) and then go battle.

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If I have AK and open raise on the button and you have T9 in the BB out of position, and we're both going to hit/miss the flop the same percentage of time, do you still not like raising?

[brettbrettr]

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My point was I find waaaay too often ANY, repeat, ANY open raise is treated as an obvious steal. I'm talking above over-aggressive poor players here. Limps seems to get more respect.

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You do realize that not getting "respect" usually entails making more money right?

[shane88888]

I came here for help, and trust me Bill, I appreciate the input. I felt my points may have been misinterpreted.

I'm just interested in discussing the merits of limping, and whether it's a good play to use as the online game becomes tighter and more aggressive every day Neteller is out of business.

[shane88888]

brett-

I'd never open-limp AK/AQ in any situation - I hope I didn't imply this above.

It's the marginal KJ/QJ/QT/JT hands when there's already a limper in the pot that I'm concerned about.