AC Hypothetical

[goodsamaritan]

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You don't need an explicit agreement to submit to arbitration. Every person has universal authority to remedy acts of aggression against him. Such a right may of course be delegated. While I hesitate to make predictions about how exactly the market for justice would work in an AC system, I imagine that representatives of your neighbor's protection agency will attempt to bring you to justice for your act. They may try you first and then try to apprehend you, or vice versa.

In the end, however, if you choose to resist, the result would almost certainly be nearly identical to what it would be now: many men with guns would surround you and use force--lethal if necessary--to bring you to justice.

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In other words, I'm bound by unwritten laws that I didn't agree to and that I may not agree with.

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Yup. Or do you think we should have to get the permission of murderers to stop them?

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You're missing the point. In most cases it will not be obvious whot he murderer is. What is the standard of proof required to search someone's house and/or apprehend them? And who sets that standard?

[Skidoo]

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You're missing the point. In most cases it will not be obvious whot he murderer is. What is the standard of proof required to search someone's house and/or apprehend them? And who sets that standard?

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And who issues the warrant?

[ShakeZula06]

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While standing in my backyard, I shoot and kill my neighbor who is mowing his lawn. I have signed no agreement such that it could be said that I have voluntarily submitted to the authority of an arbitrator, homeowners' association, etc. What happens?

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What happens with a state?

[Skidoo]

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While standing in my backyard, I shoot and kill my neighbor who is mowing his lawn. I have signed no agreement such that it could be said that I have voluntarily submitted to the authority of an arbitrator, homeowners' association, etc. What happens?

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What happens with a state?

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C'mon, you can do better than that.

People have legitimate questions here. Rather than a redirection, try some straight answers. Who knows, maybe a few skeptics will get around to seeing things the AC way.

[ShakeZula06]

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While standing in my backyard, I shoot and kill my neighbor who is mowing his lawn. I have signed no agreement such that it could be said that I have voluntarily submitted to the authority of an arbitrator, homeowners' association, etc. What happens?

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What happens with a state?

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C'mon, you can do better than that.

People have legitimate questions here. Rather than a redirection, try some straight answers. Who knows, maybe a few skeptics will get around to seeing things the AC way.

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It's not a redirection at all. Ask yourself what would happen under a government if you were shot while mowing the lawn. Then ask yourself why such a thing couldn't happen without the government.

edit- Another point is we don't know everything that will happen in an AC society, because there is no set system. The most effecient and beneficial system will be picked because that's how a free market works.

[Skidoo]

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While standing in my backyard, I shoot and kill my neighbor who is mowing his lawn. I have signed no agreement such that it could be said that I have voluntarily submitted to the authority of an arbitrator, homeowners' association, etc. What happens?

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What happens with a state?

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C'mon, you can do better than that.

People have legitimate questions here. Rather than a redirection, try some straight answers. Who knows, maybe a few skeptics will get around to seeing things the AC way.

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It's not a redirection at all. Ask yourself what would happen under a government if you were shot while mowing the lawn. Then ask yourself why such a thing couldn't happen without the government.

edit- Another point is we don't know everything that will happen in an AC society, because there is no set system. The most effecient and beneficial system will be picked because that's how a free market works.

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You're firing blanks, dude. Crime is presumed under all conditions.

The OP is about what happens in consequence. I suggest you try to focus and think up some relevant responses.

[hmkpoker]

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While the particular facts of my hypothetical are somewhat farfetched, surely people will occasionally murder one another in AC land.

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Yes. There's a global population of 6.5 billion and rising. Yes, murders will happen from time to time. They have happened in every government known to mankind too.

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The -EVness of criminality does not prevent people from doing criminal things.

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You HAVE to be joking. Are you seriously suggesting that people who want to commit a crime are not deterred by the potential legal repercussions?

[goodsamaritan]

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edit- Another point is we don't know everything that will happen in an AC society, because there is no set system. The most effecient and beneficial system will be picked because that's how a free market works.

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You can't prove that.

[WordWhiz]

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You're missing the point. In most cases it will not be obvious whot he murderer is. What is the standard of proof required to search someone's house and/or apprehend them? And who sets that standard?

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The market sets the standard. The victim's protection agency seeks out the murderer. Potential suspects appeal to their own firms for defense. Through arbitration and bargaining, an efficient standard is reached for all elements of a criminal investigation--arrest, search, going to trial, conviction, etc. There's a good chapter on line about this. Replace Friedman's example of a death penalty/ non-dp court with courts with different standards of proof for conviction, or issuing warrants, or whatever. (Note that Friedman, in discussing the bargaining process, ignores the issue of the starting point, an omission pointed out by James Buchanan in a review. He has since explained that Schelling points would most probably serve as the starting points, allowing the dead hand of the current law to guide future development.)

[ShakeZula06]

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edit- Another point is we don't know everything that will happen in an AC society, because there is no set system. The most effecient and beneficial system will be picked because that's how a free market works.

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You can't prove that.

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You can't prove that there's not dozens of invisible untouchable elephants in my rooms either.