The Well - PokerJans

[PokerJans]

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How do other casino stud games compare in general skill level to online play, and is there a correllation between limits (online 3-6 = live 6-12, for example)?

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Like you noted - live games are much better than online games. There isnt any evidence that supports a direct correllation between online limits v. live limits.

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I can hold my own in online games up to 10-20 on Stars, FTP and WPX, and I did well in the unspeakably soft 25-50 when it used to run on Pokerroom. What live game limits are comparable in skill to these online games, and what sort of roll (in BB) would I need to play if I took a weekend trip to AC, Foxwoods or Vegas, and which games (location and limits) specifically would you consider good?

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Are we talking stud-hi here? Admittedly I dont play stud-hi very well but if you can beat 10-20 online I am sure you probably won't have much of a problem beating any game in the Foxwoods room. Never played above 10-20 stud-hi live but I am sure the 20-40 isnt much different and the 75-150 probably attracts some huge fish along with the sharks.

Sorry for no straight answer because in my opinion there isnt one. I am sure if you pratice good game selection you could surely beat the 75 game live - but I am also sure on some strange days you can sit down in a 10-20 game and feel like you are even money.

Your bankroll is all relative to where you are at in life. If you can go broke and it wouldnt effect you (as I did many times in 04-05) then go ahead and play on a short roll.

If you want to set aside a certain amount of money that is absolutely going to the only money you play poker with then you need to be more conservative and accept dropping down in levels when you start to run bad.

If I was strictly going to play live stud8 with a defined BR I would probably take 250BBs with me. But I understand stud-hi has more variance so I guess 400 would be ok.

Like I said though, you willingness to play smaller/bigger games and your acceptingness(is that aword?lol) of BUSTO are two huge variables. Its whatever you feel comfortable with IMO.

If we are just talking about a weekend trip than just take like 50-100 BBs...depends how long you are going for and what else is around. If you are going to Vegas take 50BB because you can go to the strip club if you lose, if you are going to Foxwoods take 100 because there is nothing there. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[PokerJans]

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Any reasons to why you to chose to play Stud8 and/or O8 over a game like NLHE or LHE?

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Of course I started playing NL HE. And I actually made a lot of money from MTTs when I first started.

One of the first books I read however was Phil Hellmuths book where he outlined stud8, O8, Razz so that sparked my interest in 'other games'. Also running good when you first start experimenting with these games I am sure was hugely attractive. When I first started playing 3-6 O8 on OnGame I was play every hand and hit-n-run the game for 250$ everynight. I thought I was god. lol

I dont think there is any doubt however Holdem is more profitable.

Also the idea of lower variance was attractive. I personally how gone through streaks however that totally oppose that position. stud8 has much more variance than you think. I dont have enough hands to form a opinion about O8.

[PokerJans]

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[snarky comment] You have been here for less than a year and have fewer than 100 posts. Why would you want to subject yourself to the well when this is usually done by someone who has been around for a while and known by he others in the forum[/snarky comment]

I'm not saying you don't play well enough to sit in the well, I'm only saying its odd.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

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lol, I agree but I wanted to present this idea to the forum more than anything. I think it a cool concept and hopefully other posters will jump into the well after me.

But yeah I totally expected like 2 replys to this thread, haha

[PokerJans]

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Do you use table selection, and at what limits?

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When I used to play everyday I would practice table selection. I would pretty much just look at the average pot size and look at the line-up. Usually only watched the games a bit beforehand when I was going to play 15-30.

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What adjustments do you make for:
- tight games?
- short handed games?
- tournaments?

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For tight games I usually just find a new game. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

No really though I will open up my play considerably. Specifically I just open a lot more pots. This way I can't get in much trouble and I portray the image of a maniac.

In addition when I play live I also drink a couple beers and ensure that I am friendly and out going with the entire table. You will get paid more than anyone ever.

For short handed games I do not open up nearly as much as you may think. High hands do have more value however and I am much more willing to enter pots with largish pairs. The beauty of SH games is that your opponents think they have to open up big when this is simply not the case. 3-4 handed games are the nuts because people will play worse and in general you only open a up a little bit and win lots of money.

For tournaments early on you just play your standard game.

In the later stages you need to be willing to gamble. Understanding your hands actual showdown value versus the suspected range of your opponent is very important. This is because you can get see when its all going in on 5th or whatever and you get to see two more cards for 'free'

Also in the later stages stealing becomes important. Like I have said in this thread though that is just general poker advice.

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What are the biggest leaks you see in other people's games?

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They dont understand the actual value of their hand. I have spent a ton of time on twodimes and I feel that is very important.

Basically people get carried away with their hand when they hardly have any reason to be in the pot. I play a ton of pots on 3rd and 4th because often times I can depend on my opponents making huge mistakes on the big bet streets and therefor making it profitable for me.

Just generic things : playing hands with no scoop potential, playing suited cards, getting carried away with pairs, calling down too much chasing for half the pot, making crying calls on the river when the pot isnt that big...

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Have you fixed any significant leaks in your own game, and do you think you still have any?

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Definitely, and Definitely.

Really whenever I was confused about something I would run to twodimes. It was a very valuable tool as part of my development as a successsful stud8 player. This cleared a lot of things up for me and helped me gain a more solid understanding of various situations and in turn plugged my leaks.

These days I play way too many hands. Drink too much. I never go on rabid monkey tilt but I do miss bets here and there, maybe make a bad call or two. Little things.

I know I am fundamentally solid enough to beat any stud8 game online - but I have always been able to anaylze the game better than I could actually play it.

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Do you use pokertracker, and if so, do you have any interesting stats to share such as VPIP at various limits, BB/hand won with certain hand categories, etc?

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Sorry, never got into it. I just use an excel spreadsheet to track my results.

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What is your name on Stars, or is that secret?

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Honestly I wouldnt mind sharing expect for the fact that I am basically a huge-drunk internet douche. Mostly because I come home late at night drunk and just talk [censored]...a lot! I busto'd my stars account anyways. lol

[southerndog]

I've never noticed you posting in this forum, what gives you the right?

[Phat Mack]

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[snarky comment] You have been here for less than a year and have fewer than 100 posts. Why would you want to subject yourself to the well when this is usually done by someone who has been around for a while and known by he others in the forum[/snarky comment]

I'm not saying you don't play well enough to sit in the well, I'm only saying its odd.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

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lol, I agree but I wanted to present this idea to the forum more than anything. I think it a cool concept and hopefully other posters will jump into the well after me.

But yeah I totally expected like 2 replys to this thread, haha

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Thanks for doing this. Maybe some of the better known posters will like the idea and follow suit.

[*TT*]

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[snarky comment] You have been here for less than a year and have fewer than 100 posts. Why would you want to subject yourself to the well when this is usually done by someone who has been around for a while and known by he others in the forum[/snarky comment]

I'm not saying you don't play well enough to sit in the well, I'm only saying its odd.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

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lol, I agree but I wanted to present this idea to the forum more than anything. I think it a cool concept and hopefully other posters will jump into the well after me.

But yeah I totally expected like 2 replys to this thread, haha

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Thanks for doing this. Maybe some of the better known posters will like the idea and follow suit.

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Get in that dam well Mack [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Phat Mack]

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Get in that dam well Mack [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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That's an idea, but I think we should hold out for somebody who knows wtf he's talking about. If Andy jumped in the well, we could talk not only stud, but beer and tubas...

Andy, yes or no: could Chuck Daellenbach hang with the Dirty Dozen?

[Andy B]

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Andy, yes or no: could Chuck Daellenbach hang with the Dirty Dozen?

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No.

[Off Duty]

Props to OP for the sack to start this thread.