QQ late stages against the chip leader

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
is flat calling an option here??

i'm new to MTTs - if hero flat calls the raise it'd make any flop w/ an A/K easier to get away from. is this the wrong spot to use this logic? advice appreciated.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's OK to flat call a raise with QQ with deep money. Here, you have to reraise.

You just want to win the hand preflop or get the money in with the best hand. Don't worry about bad flops.

[Toro]

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Hero reraises to 13K-17K. You could also push, which is an overbet. A push might be misread as AK and called by 99-JJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. I push here a lot and get called by 99 a lot.

[RichC.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
is flat calling an option here??

i'm new to MTTs - if hero flat calls the raise it'd make any flop w/ an A/K easier to get away from. is this the wrong spot to use this logic? advice appreciated.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's OK to flat call a raise with QQ with deep money. Here, you have to reraise.

You just want to win the hand preflop or get the money in with the best hand. Don't worry about bad flops.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont like flat calling with the 3rd best starting hand, however, when its two big stacks going against each other, a flat call is good. This will minimize your loses if you miss and CL starts bullying. Flat calling can also set the trap when you hit a set on an AQx board. Payday biotch.

[roo400]

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[ QUOTE ]
Hero reraises to 13K-17K. You could also push, which is an overbet. A push might be misread as AK and called by 99-JJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. I push here a lot and get called by 99 a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree. A push here will be viewed as really strong and will only get called by JJ+ AQ+, with AQ and JJ debatable. The high stack won't want to risk all his tourney with a pair of nines here if you push all in preflop. Getting a big pair late in a tournament is great and I think 2 options are up to us:
1) You flat call and try to trap UTG. For this you'll need to almost raise all in on the flop if no A or K hits and if he makes a good continuation bet.
Upside: Your trap might work if he hits TPTK or TPGK and you'll double up and take the chip lead. You also avoid the race that you could have against AK.
Downside: You may get outflopped by a set or get against AA or KK, but if he has one of those, you can only pray because you're not folding.

2) You raise to appr. 15K. You know where you are.
Have you resteal a lot lately? If so, you call a push. If you haven't I think you have to fold to a push from UTG.

Upside: You'll have position and if he calls and low cards come out, you're pretty confident to be ahead. You can still get away if an A or a K hits.

Downside: I really don't see a lot. Losing 15K if the board comes with an A.

This is one leak I have in my game. Let's say you raise to 15K and UTG calls. Flop comes A27 and he checks to you, what's the standard play? Bet/Fold or Check/see turn?

[jcm4ccc]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
is flat calling an option here??

i'm new to MTTs - if hero flat calls the raise it'd make any flop w/ an A/K easier to get away from. is this the wrong spot to use this logic? advice appreciated.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's OK to flat call a raise with QQ with deep money. Here, you have to reraise.

You just want to win the hand preflop or get the money in with the best hand. Don't worry about bad flops.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont like flat calling with the 3rd best starting hand, however, when its two big stacks going against each other, a flat call is good. This will minimize your loses if you miss and CL starts bullying. Flat calling can also set the trap when you hit a set on an AQx board. Payday biotch.

[/ QUOTE ] Your thought process is off here. You think you are in great position with your chip lead. In actuality, you're not that much better off than the rest of the field. You have about 20M. That will go down in a few minutes when the blinds go up again. You are still going to have to get lucky and push your edges in order to win this thing.

QQ is huge 6-handed. Put the pressure on. Calling preflop and folding to an overcard on the flop is just plain bad here.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hero reraises to 13K-17K. You could also push, which is an overbet. A push might be misread as AK and called by 99-JJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. I push here a lot and get called by 99 a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree. A push here will be viewed as really strong and will only get called by JJ+ AQ+, with AQ and JJ debatable. The high stack won't want to risk all his tourney with a pair of nines here if you push all in preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

A 2nd position reraise push for 11x the raise looks like precisely AK. About the only hands you could do this with are AK and QQ.

A lot of people think overbet is AK and call with a pp. A shorter stack may even cold call you with TT or JJ. I am not saying this is a good play, but people will do it.

[roo400]

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hero reraises to 13K-17K. You could also push, which is an overbet. A push might be misread as AK and called by 99-JJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. I push here a lot and get called by 99 a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree. A push here will be viewed as really strong and will only get called by JJ+ AQ+, with AQ and JJ debatable. The high stack won't want to risk all his tourney with a pair of nines here if you push all in preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

A 2nd position reraise push for 11x the raise looks like precisely AK. About the only hands you could do this with are AK and QQ.

A lot of people think overbet is AK and call with a pp. A shorter stack may even cold call you with TT or JJ. I am not saying this is a good play, but people will do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm saying UTG chip leader won't. Tell me if I'm wrong but I don't think so.

[betgo]

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hero reraises to 13K-17K. You could also push, which is an overbet. A push might be misread as AK and called by 99-JJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. I push here a lot and get called by 99 a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree. A push here will be viewed as really strong and will only get called by JJ+ AQ+, with AQ and JJ debatable. The high stack won't want to risk all his tourney with a pair of nines here if you push all in preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

A 2nd position reraise push for 11x the raise looks like precisely AK. About the only hands you could do this with are AK and QQ.

A lot of people think overbet is AK and call with a pp. A shorter stack may even cold call you with TT or JJ. I am not saying this is a good play, but people will do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm saying UTG chip leader won't. Tell me if I'm wrong but I don't think so.

[/ QUOTE ]

In this situation, I agree that the chip leader is unlikely to risk almost all of his stack by callin a push without atleast AK or JJ.

[Toro]

Oh, I've seen a lot of chip leaders who get the "I'm bulletproof" mentality because they've run so good to this point, call withh 99.

As said before, they read the push as AK.

[hockey coach]

Thanks all for the input - good to see concensus ;-)

At the time I didn't much like my options and still don't:

Ignoring for simplicity the other players still to act who could wake up w/ KK+ ...

Pushing is marginally +cEV (5-10%) against normal calling ranges but I doubt it's +$EV given my current position.

Raising 15K and planning to fold to his push w/ QQ+/AK is barely +cEV and not as good as calling his push cEV-wise but is clearly less volatile and so prob better $EV-wise (raising less than 15k doesn't change much on the downside and prices him in so I learn nothing).

Calling seems weak (and may be weak) but there's a case for playing for set value and there's pair value as well if I miss and play smartly on the flop.

Given I can call for set value I can't fold.

FWIW - I called and played stupidly on the flop :-( I was hoping I'd find a line that wouldn't depend on my playing smartly on the flop ;-)

Thanks again,
HC