A Tale of Two Tactics: Dawkins versus Dennett

[Alex-db]

Have any of you seen Dawkins' documentary "The Root of All Evil"? Im not sure in what countries it was released, but can be downloaded as a torrent.

It was genuinly, genuinly scary, and having seen what Dawkins is seeing, his activism seems terribly insufficient.

It featured religious extremists from both Isreal and America (Ted Hoggard), and their insanity is absolutely shocking.

It left me thinking I should do anything I can to personally reduce the strength of religious conviction in everyone I know.

I'm considering starting with a "please pass on this shocking email" detailing the repeated biblical support of offering your daughters up for condoned gang rape if it will prevent an attack on your male guest, and any similar educate-everyone ideas.

[Rduke55]

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I wonder if the stylistic differences pointed out by the OP are, in a nutshell, the reason why Dawkins's works get quoted frequently in the popular press

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Of course Dawkins gets quoted more because he's got bettter soundbites.
I think. while his books on evolution are great, he's part of the reason evolution is having such problems being accepted by a lot of people. He needs to zip it sometimes.

[Rduke55]

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It featured religious extremists from both Isreal and America (Ted Hoggard), and their insanity is absolutely shocking.

It left me thinking I should do anything I can to personally reduce the strength of religious conviction in everyone I know.

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In everyone you know?
You do realize that the majority of christians and jews aren't nearly this extreme, don't you?

[Alex-db]

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It featured religious extremists from both Isreal and America (Ted Hoggard), and their insanity is absolutely shocking.

It left me thinking I should do anything I can to personally reduce the strength of religious conviction in everyone I know.

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In everyone you know?
You do realize that the majority of christians and jews aren't nearly this extreme, don't you?

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Of course, but their reasons for being religious are as seriously flawed and they support the extremists whether deliberately or not. Perhaps its donations to churchs, teaching the mythology to their kids who grow up to be extremists, or being non-believers who still fill in a census as "Christian" and give people the idea religions are popular and worthy organisations.

Im also as disgusted by the moderates' denial of search for knowledge, and passing on of absurd moral codes, as the extremists. The moderates should step back and admit their religion is hurrendous and based on untrue premises instead of helping to propogate the philosophical ignorance.

Edit: I do mean everyone I know: explain the flaws to the religious, explain to the agnostic that its ok to be atheist, and explain to the atheists that they should become active educators.

[Alex-db]

A 'moderate':

"We don't actually believe that blacks should be lynched, we just like the white hoods and sense of community"

You wouldn't be so moronic as to supply your implicit support though would you?

[bunny]

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Of course, but their reasons for being religious are as seriously flawed

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This is just not true. Even among extremists, some have better reasons than others for being religious.

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and they support the extremists whether deliberately or not. Perhaps its donations to churchs, teaching the mythology to their kids who grow up to be extremists, or being non-believers who still fill in a census as "Christian" and give people the idea religions are popular and worthy organisations.

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Some religions are worthy organisations, some arent. Are you really suggesting I shouldnt donate to my local church's fundraiser for recent bushfire victims on the grounds that I am lending support to some other group with more sinister objectives?

This argument makes no sense to me. "You cant agree with a fundamentalist a little bit because you're lending them credibility or support." I do this all the time, I believe in a social safety net for people disadvantaged by circumstance - is this tacit support for communist dictatorship?

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Im also as disgusted by the moderates' denial of search for knowledge, and passing on of absurd moral codes, as the extremists.

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Being religious does not preclude searching for knowledge, neither does it necessitate an absurd moral code.

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The moderates should step back and admit their religion is hurrendous and based on untrue premises instead of helping to propogate the philosophical ignorance.

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Not only do we not agree with your judgement of our religion, we also believe the premises, remember? This whole post seems to imply we're just pretending to believe for some reason.

[vhawk01]

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I wonder if the stylistic differences pointed out by the OP are, in a nutshell, the reason why Dawkins's works get quoted frequently in the popular press

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course Dawkins gets quoted more because he's got bettter soundbites.
I think. while his books on evolution are great, he's part of the reason evolution is having such problems being accepted by a lot of people. He needs to zip it sometimes.

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I'm not allowed to quote or support Dawkins on SMP until I've read the books by other authors that you and others have recommended to me.

[Rduke55]

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I wonder if the stylistic differences pointed out by the OP are, in a nutshell, the reason why Dawkins's works get quoted frequently in the popular press

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course Dawkins gets quoted more because he's got bettter soundbites.
I think. while his books on evolution are great, he's part of the reason evolution is having such problems being accepted by a lot of people. He needs to zip it sometimes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not allowed to quote or support Dawkins on SMP until I've read the books by other authors that you and others have recommended to me.

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No, please continue to do so (although I could do with a little less of the religious stuff). I didn't mean to come off anti-Dawkins. I just referenced him today in that other thread.

[DougShrapnel]

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hI think. while his books on evolution are great, he's part of the reason evolution is having such problems being accepted by a lot of people.

[/ QUOTE ] I'm very sorry Rduke, but dawkins would not exist if people didn't have such problems accepting evolution. Athough I respect your opinion on matters regarding matter such as this, I'm afraid I believe I have solid ground to stand on, on that point. If you disagree I'll come up with a better argument.

[Rduke55]

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hI think. while his books on evolution are great, he's part of the reason evolution is having such problems being accepted by a lot of people.

[/ QUOTE ] I'm very sorry Rduke, but dawkins would not exist if people didn't have such problems accepting evolution. Athough I respect your opinion on matters regarding matter such as this, I'm afraid I believe I have solid ground to stand on, on that point. If you disagree I'll come up with a better argument.

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I guess my point is that he can push moderate people away from even looking at the idea. At least some people I've tried to explain evolution to were quick with Dawkins quotes they got from religious sources showing that believing in evolution was the stuff of heathens.