QQ - I Hate Overpairs

[Gap23Razor]

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I have Button as around 20/11/0.9 over a miniscule (50 hand) sample.

Full Tilt Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $5/$10
8 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is UTG+1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, MP1 calls, 2 folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: (9SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, MP1 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises</font>, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.5BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Button 3-bets</font>, Hero...?

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Hero calls the turn 3bet...i put the villain on: 1. 65s in clubs or hearts; 2. a mid-range pocket pair 99's-88's; 3. a set 77-55's, 22's. With 65s we have a 5 outs &amp; with 10bb we have pot odds...99's&amp;88's we lead, and with a set we are hurting...of the three possibilities i thing the villain's pre-flop &amp; flop play most likely fits 65s...so lets call

anybody see it differently? thanks

[Harv72b]

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But, I suck at poker, so I called. River was the Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]...what now?

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c/r.

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For bonus points: what if we get 3bet?

[Gap23Razor]

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I would have 3-bet the flop and led at the turn.



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is that because you suspect villain is on a flush-draw and is playing for a free card?

[Gap23Razor]

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But, I suck at poker, so I called. River was the Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]...what now?

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c/r.

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For bonus points: what if we get 3bet?

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i would only call...my tentative read was probably wrong and the villain quite possibly has made a flush or straight...pot too big to fold...call

[James.]

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But, I suck at poker, so I called. River was the Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]...what now?

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c/r.

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For bonus points: what if we get 3bet?

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i don't think it happens very often, really. that's part of why i like c/r over b/3b.

so we are worried about 16 combos of 89, A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. probably some other straight/flush crap that would add a few combos: lets say 25 combos. we are ahead of 55, 66, 77, and 22 which is 36 combos. we definitely aren't folding so it's a question of cap or no cap. IMO, the way he played the hand the flush draw(and those specific hands pf) should still be discounted so it's captown for me, baby.

[Harv72b]

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IMO, the way he played the hand the flush draw(and those specific hands pf) should still be discounted so it's captown for me, baby.

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You're my hero, James. [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[tipperdog]

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I would have 3-bet the flop and led at the turn.



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is that because you suspect villain is on a flush-draw and is playing for a free card?

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Possibly. Or he has a lower over pair and thinks his hand is good vs. my (he thinks) overcards. Regardless, I'm reasonably sure my hand is best and I'm reasonably sure that he won't get off his hand if I 3-bet, so...

[Harv72b]

Okay, actual hand. I check/raised the river, he called with 77, MHIG and he went on tilt for like 2 orbits.

I wanted to mention something regarding a lot of the recommendations made in this thread. Going for the river c/r is only good if he does in fact have a set (or screwplayed aces). If he was overplaying a smaller overpair, then the combination of the overcard + flush draw hitting means that he's going to check through a lot. Ditto for two pair combos, although they might try to eke out a value bet against my obvious overpair.

Since I was pretty darn sure that he did in fact have a set (which made my turn call of the 3bet ludicrously bad), I went for the c/r. Really, based on my image + the prior streets, I thought the only flush I could possibly be up against would have been 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] specifically, and even then he might not 3bet it for fear of an overflush. Which is why I agree with James above--if he'd 3bet, I would have capped and congratulated him heartily if he had rivered the nut flush.

So for those of you who thought he was overplaying JJ-88 on the turn, going for the c/r would be pretty bad in that case. Even if he did bet with those hands, I'm not sure he's going to call the c/r (if he was holding one of those hands then really the only thing he could have put me on was a spades draw). Two pair hands may also bail to the river c/r, when they bet...although in fairness the pot is huge so they might make a crying call.

I just liked this hand because I thought it was an excellent exercise in hand-reading. And as is often the case, I made the right read and misplayed my hand anyway. Because I suck at poker. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[revlwb]

I would reraise the flop and bet out on the turn, and checkraise the river.

[James.]

hell, he wouldn't even have 16 combos of 89 because he's only playing 89s in that spot, anyway. huh, i screwed that one up.

what you really need to focus on improving is your river skills. i mean, you rivered a queen which is good. but it being the queen of [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] may have cost a bet in this spot because i think you could b/3b the river otherwise. the next time you have two outs, pretend like it's only one out so you can river the best card for the situation. proper river play is, after all, where most of the profits come from. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

James