10-20 hand: How many bets do you go?

[Gamblor]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

My standard is to fastplay anything and nothing.

His flop-calling range is exactly: a pocket pair, a King, a 6, or a spade draw. He will not call with a lone Ace.

If he has none of these hands, say hand has A7, QJ, x[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]x[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], or any unpaired hand he will call a turn bet if he picks up any 8-out+ draw (i.e. with 87 if a 9 comes) or if he makes any pair or better on the turn. I just don't see any reason to bet the flop if he will call me down with any turn pair, he will call the turn drawing dead.

I have the mortal nuts and he has at best 3-outs against me. I don't think a free card is bad. In his mind (IMO) a bet from me = King or 6. It is my experience that super passive players tend to think that the correct way to play is passively and therefore all of the other players should (and will) play passively too.

Given the above argument, isn't my EV for checking and betting any turn much better? If not, why?

[private joker]

I fastplay more than anybody and I generally hate slowplaying, but actually this is one of those very very rare times where I like slowplaying this flop. Conditions that need to be met for slowplaying are 1) few opponents; 2) very small pot; 3) a hand that can't be easily outdrawn.

All three of those conditions are met here, so checking at least gives him a chance to catch up to a second best hand in a tiny pot. Betting here lets him off easy by just folding.

As for the river, I can't really say how many bets I would go but it would be a lot. How deep are the stacks? Are we assuming like 30BBs each?

[sternroolz]

I have a very hard time believing that he checked K7 on the flop and on the turn. I'm much more likely to believe he has 77 or a flush and that his river action is based on belief that you do not have a hand OR that he simply does not see the possible full house. I go lots of bets here.

[surfdoc]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet the flop.

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Wow. Just wow. Shame on you and ssmallz. Betting out here is such a horrible thing to do. You have the entire board locked up and when he just quickly mucks you will hate yourself immensely. You must let him try to bluff at it or catch some card to improve on the the turn. Checking this flop is the play and it is amazingly not close. PJ outlines the reasons in his post.

As far as the question in the OP, I think about 10 bets would be correct before I give in to K7.

Edit to say that the unlimited bets HU on this site make it even better to slowplay since if he has a hand like 77 you will still get all you can eat whenever you decide to unleash your fury.

[stinkypete]

i slowplay almost never but i agree with surfdoc here.

[Gamblor]

[ QUOTE ]
I fastplay more than anybody and I generally hate slowplaying, but actually this is one of those very very rare times where I like slowplaying this flop. Conditions that need to be met for slowplaying are 1) few opponents; 2) very small pot; 3) a hand that can't be easily outdrawn.

All three of those conditions are met here, so checking at least gives him a chance to catch up to a second best hand in a tiny pot. Betting here lets him off easy by just folding.

As for the river, I can't really say how many bets I would go but it would be a lot. How deep are the stacks? Are we assuming like 30BBs each?

[/ QUOTE ]

Suppose we each started the hand with 15 BBs.

[Gamblor]

I went 12 bets to the felt and was naturally shown K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

The more I thought about it, the more I felt that 12 was too much. Even a total retard with 77 or K2 has to worry about me having Kings full before the 10th bet.

[CardSharpCook]

I'm probably just calling an 8-bet. Unless I have a reason to believe he's a) an idiot b) on tilt in which case, 10 or 12.

[mike l.]

that's horrid advice. kings full is huge. give the guy a little rope.

[Joe Tall]

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i slowplay almost never but i agree with surfdoc here.

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I dont' think you guys donk-bluff the flop enough. I do it so much, no one will give me credit here.