16: Push this KK on Ace flop?

[Rook]

[ QUOTE ]
better freakin point. btw he had A4

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lol, So he called your raise from EP (after limping) and your push (I assume you pushed) with Ace small? How did he get the big stack? I assume he luck boxed into it.

[Burno]

Well this spot sucks.

I probably just make it 300 preflop.

As played, I'm checking and going AI if he bets. I have the Kc and I am never making a better hand fold so I might as well see if I can get a worse one to bet.

FluoHippo- shove why?

[AMT]

making it less than 400 pf is missing out on value from basically every villain that will call a raise PF after limping. shoving is also missing out on value, id raise to 400 as OP did, or if i thought hed call more, up to 500 so i can shove any flop....this is a flop. yeah.


edit: i dont mind the line of checking with the intent of getting it in having made your PF raise, but i stand by my betting statements.

[snakekilla88]

worse hands fold better hands call..so checky.

[mightyrick]

Check-fold flop. If he checks the flop, and you get to the turn, shove.

[loxxii]

[ QUOTE ]
Check-fold flop. If he checks the flop, and you get to the turn, shove.

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another interesting line. what if he c-bets our check with QQ?

Argument against check is that he may check and catch up if he's behind. If we're willing to go broke, on his donk call then this is incorrect. But what if we aren't willing to go broke on the A, but we are on the catch like rick said. Is this optimal? Is it worth the chance of getting c-betted out?

[AMT]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Check-fold flop. If he checks the flop, and you get to the turn, shove.

[/ QUOTE ]

another interesting line. what if he c-bets our check with QQ?

Argument against check is that he may check and catch up if he's behind. If we're willing to go broke, on his donk call then this is incorrect. But what if we aren't willing to go broke on the A, but we are on the catch like rick said. Is this optimal? Is it worth the chance of getting c-betted out?

[/ QUOTE ]


you need to decide on the flop if youre going to go broke or not, i would never decide, in a WA/WB situation like this that ill just "figure it out" on the turn. this mentality in a spot like this clears up similar confusion for the turn.

[mightyrick]

[ QUOTE ]
another interesting line. what if he c-bets our check with QQ?

[/ QUOTE ]
Doesn't matter. I've made my decision on the flop how this hand is going down. Regardless of what falls, I'm shoving the turn. If he has QQ, then good hand to him.

But I'm not going to make decisions based on his ability to get a two-outer.

[loxxii]

if he has JT or QJ clubs then its not a 2 outer.

I guess the answer is to decide before hand. At this level, in hindsight, its probably a bad idea to go broke here.

In that case, its check/fold or check/push turn. Cool.

Is a 100 chip c-bet and fold to raise or check down at turn horrible?

[mightyrick]

I dunno. I don't mind going broke on KK. There are worst hands to lose on.

But IMHO, if you're going to go broke, don't go broke calling a huge bet on the flop with an ace on the board and a big pre-flop caller.

But if he checks the ace on the board, you shove on the turn. He's represented weakness. I can't see anybody (save a donkey) checking that board (2 clubs) on the flop with an ace.