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#11
12-31-2006, 02:30 PM
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Re: Saddam Hussein\'s last moments : Another goal conceded
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] This is not the kind of western justice that was supposed to be imported into Iraq. [/ QUOTE ] At this point I'm content with a mission that attempts to keep them from exporting their barbarism. [/ QUOTE ]You are right. And the proof is that the mission has been soooo successful at stopping barbarism and terrorism and religious extremism inside Iraq in the first place... [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] The mission is a success every day the Sears tower is not bombed and no one I know is beheaded in America. [/ QUOTE ] Wow, just wow! 
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#12
12-31-2006, 03:29 PM
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Re: Saddam Hussein\'s last moments : Another goal conceded
[ QUOTE ]
The mission is a success every day the Sears tower is not bombed and no one I know is beheaded in America. [/ QUOTE ] So the War on Terror has been a success since 1973? G. W. is good.
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#13
12-31-2006, 03:50 PM
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Re: Saddam Hussein\'s last moments : Another goal conceded
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] This is not the kind of western justice that was supposed to be imported into Iraq. [/ QUOTE ] At this point I'm content with a mission that attempts to keep them from exporting their barbarism. [/ QUOTE ]You are right. And the proof is that the mission has been soooo successful at stopping barbarism and terrorism and religious extremism inside Iraq in the first place... [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] The mission is a success every day the Sears tower is not bombed and no one I know is beheaded in America. [/ QUOTE ] There are only a few things the US government can do for me. One is to protect my life, family and property. All the others are pretty small stuff after the first. So how do I measure my security? Tough metric to quantify but if I experience no threat and see none on the horizon, well, works for me. If I were Iraqi I'd be mighty pissed but I'm not. I can't fix their broken culture and neither can GWB. He thought he could. He was way wrong. But there's some reason to think I ended up safer because of the overall path taken by him in the past 5 years. Arguments go both ways but then...I'm a bottom line guy. No beheadings in my neighborhood. No bombings either. You think the aggregate opinion of Europe will keep you safe? Or the UN? I have direct evidence that that it will not.
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#14
12-31-2006, 03:53 PM
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Re: Saddam Hussein\'s last moments : Another goal conceded
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] This is not the kind of western justice that was supposed to be imported into Iraq. [/ QUOTE ] At this point I'm content with a mission that attempts to keep them from exporting their barbarism. [/ QUOTE ]You are right. And the proof is that the mission has been soooo successful at stopping barbarism and terrorism and religious extremism inside Iraq in the first place... [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] The mission is a success every day the Sears tower is not bombed and no one I know is beheaded in America. [/ QUOTE ] There are only a few things the US government can do for me. One is to protect my life, family and property. All the others are pretty small stuff after the first. So how do I measure my security? Tough metric to quantify but if I experience no threat and see none on the horizon, well, works for me. If I were Iraqi I'd be mighty pissed but I'm not. I can't fix their broken culture and neither can GWB. He thought he could. He was way wrong. But there's some reason to think I ended up safer because of the overall path taken by him in the past 5 years. Arguments go both ways but then...I'm a bottom line guy. No beheadings in my neighborhood. No bombings either. You think the aggregate opinion of Europe will keep you safe? Or the UN? [/ QUOTE ] This is all well and good, but there's a lot of assumptions about cause and effect buried in your rather weak argument for the Iraq war. Hence the replies.
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#15
12-31-2006, 04:05 PM
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Re: Saddam Hussein\'s last moments : Another goal conceded
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...your rather weak argument for the Iraq war. [/ QUOTE ] I'm not really interested in arguing for the Iraq war. I'm passing along my observations of my tiny world, which currently feels safer.
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#16
12-31-2006, 04:14 PM
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Re: Saddam Hussein\'s last moments : Another goal conceded
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The mission is a success every day the Sears tower is not bombed and no one I know is beheaded in America. Lisa, I want to buy your rock. [/ QUOTE ] Perfect response
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#17
12-31-2006, 04:15 PM
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Re: Saddam Hussein\'s last moments : Another goal conceded
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] ...your rather weak argument for the Iraq war. [/ QUOTE ] I'm not really interested in arguing for the Iraq war. I'm passing along my observations of my tiny world, which currently feels safer. [/ QUOTE ] That's fine if you remember it's just a feeling.
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#18
12-31-2006, 05:42 PM
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Re: Saddam Hussein\'s last moments : Another goal conceded
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] This is not the kind of western justice that was supposed to be imported into Iraq. [/ QUOTE ] At this point I'm content with a mission that attempts to keep them from exporting their barbarism. [/ QUOTE ]You are right. And the proof is that the mission has been soooo successful at stopping barbarism and terrorism and religious extremism inside Iraq in the first place... [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] The mission is a success every day the Sears tower is not bombed and no one I know is beheaded in America. [/ QUOTE ] When did Saddam Husein or the Iraqi government or people commit, plan or conspire to commit an act of bombing on US soil? Or are you just advocating a permanent war based on the premise that if we just kill everyone then no one can hurt us?
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#19
12-31-2006, 06:02 PM
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Re: Saddam Hussein\'s last moments : Another goal conceded
I take a bigger view. We are engaged in the poorly named 'Global war on terror'. I believe if we were honest we'd rename it as the 'global war on radical Islam, middle east our specialty'. Taking out Saddam was a message. Expensive? Sure, but we get some value for it. How do I know we got value for it? By the actions of Al Qaeda since. They have made political moves. In Spain, England and in their efforts to alter the US elections, I know from that, that what we are currently doing is hurting them. That and the lack of any follow-up US attacks.
Now the poker player's angle. Was taking out Saddam +EV for the US? I'm unable to decide at this time but I'm leaning toward a no. It is clearly -EV for Al Qaeda so maybe it's just a very high rake game that no one wins. The problem is Al Qaeda is not looking to quit the game so neither can we.
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#20
12-31-2006, 06:24 PM
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Re: Saddam Hussein\'s last moments : Another goal conceded
[ QUOTE ]
I take a bigger view. We are engaged in the poorly named 'Global war on terror'. I believe if we were honest we'd rename it as the 'global war on radical Islam, middle east our specialty'. Taking out Saddam was a message. Expensive? Sure, but we get some value for it. How do I know we got value for it? By the actions of Al Qaeda since. They have made political moves. In Spain, England and in their efforts to alter the US elections, I know from that, that what we are currently doing is hurting them. That and the lack of any follow-up US attacks. Now the poker player's angle. Was taking out Saddam +EV for the US? I'm unable to decide at this time but I'm leaning toward a no. It is clearly -EV for Al Qaeda so maybe it's just a very high rake game that no one wins. The problem is Al Qaeda is not looking to quit the game so neither can we. [/ QUOTE ] The attack on Iraq was hugely positive EV for AQ and negative EV. We have spent billions and gained nothing. AQ has gained by a) our attention is on other problems b) our standing with the Muslim world is declining (one of AQ's goals). Presently the only muslims who are willing to work with the US are the tyrants that AQ hates.
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