Awkward bubble spot

[Ditch Digger]

Shoving looks best. Calling leaves us in a very [censored] spot on the flop and gives UTG an escape route if he completely wiffs. Like Pineapple said, if we think he's huge we should just fold PF but I suck and never have good enough reads to know that a guy does this with only monsters.

[RexWoo]

Sorry guys, but you really need to explain to me how on earth shoving could be better than calling here.

Plz.

[fluorescenthippo]

[ QUOTE ]
FH : this is ONLY the scenario where we push and UTG folds (I put his calling range to 0% on purpose).

[EDIT] + if UTG had pushed this would be a good push but IMO we make a huge error if we push and allow him to escape (I posted a hand where I got trapped in this kind of situation a few weeks ago and it also was the conclusion).

[/ QUOTE ]

hmmm i think i know why sngwiz would give such i weird answer then. i just got it but ill play around with it tomorrow. bedtime nwo

[RexWoo]

Here is the similar hand I was talking about :

UTG Folds with 45 chips

[Ditch Digger]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry guys, but you really need to explain to me how on earth shoving could be better than calling here.

Plz.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. UTG will rarely fold PF to our shove. If he does we are still ahead of SB's range so it's not the end of existence.
2. We are in the crappiest position relative to the two other stacks. WTF do you do when SB leads on a flop that we whiff? It also give a chance for UTG to fold if he whiffs. For example, let's say the flop is As Kd 3h. SB bets, we call, UTG folds his pocket 5's.

[RexWoo]

Ditch,

The point is : UTG should fold a lot to our shove and let us fight with SB as it might well be his best chance.

Also what is the buy-in of this thing ?

[suzzer99]

I like shoving preflop. Only thing I know for sure is whatever you do will be the wrong thing - resultswise.

Also if intentional this is a pretty sweet play by UTG.

[sebbb]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry guys, but you really need to explain to me how on earth shoving could be better than calling here.

Plz.

[/ QUOTE ]

I tend to agree with Rexwoo here

[bigt439]

off the top of my head id call... helpful eh?

[djj6835]

[ QUOTE ]
Also if intentional this is a pretty sweet play by UTG.

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I way off in thinking that he would just minraise if this play was intentional? The fact that he raised to 800 leads me to believe this wasn't intentional and we should shove expecting him to call off his last 125.