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#11
12-21-2006, 06:47 PM
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Re: How many spews in these back to back monsters?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Cap the flop in hand 1. [/ QUOTE ] I don't think so. It's pretty obvious when you raise the flop on an OOP preflop capper that you have an overpair and Villain is not afraid of it. He's unlikely to 3Bet with QQ or JJ fearing KK or AA. It's unlikely he has KK since you have that (spliting anyway) so he has AA almost every time here. You know he doesn't have A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] for two overs and the nut flush draw since you have the K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Only if he put you on exactly A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] would he think he could 3Bet with JJ or QQ. Not so likely. If he has TT forget about it. Not that big a deal as the flop cap ends the betting there though. After that I just call down to further aggression. [/ QUOTE ] Got to disagree Tom. He plays JJ, QQ and KK the exact same way. Flop raises aren't worth the paper they are written on a lot of the time after big preflop action. I wouldn't even be surprised to see AQh, 99 etc. I think a flop 3 bet is a little too early to narrow him down to AA or 10 10. 
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#12
12-21-2006, 06:56 PM
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Re: How many spews in these back to back monsters?
Hand 1: Listen to Jba remarks when he says wait til the river to raise. Once youre HU on the turn waiting til the river to raise is much better than raising the turn IMO, and Jba explained why. This is a perfect spot to make that play assuming you believe there is still value in a raise somewhere after the flop action.
Hand 2: I dont like the flop cap in a vacuum. I would much rather leverage my position by calling the flop 3bet and raising the turn given your read that this guy overplays hands. Edit: One more thing about hand 2: If I did cap the flop, i would never raise the turn unless I felt my opponent was totally retarded.
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#13
12-21-2006, 07:01 PM
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Re: How many spews in these back to back monsters?
I like hand one including the turn raise, although I'm afraid with the 3 bet you have 2 outs. I'm not good enough to fold it. I call down unless you think he'll never play QQ or JJ this strong, since that's all you're beating. (well tied with the other KK, but that's remote)
I think that turn raise in hand two is a bit of a spew, he knows you have a huge hand and doesn't care. Unless he's getting over aggressive with AK. I think I just call down from the turn bet.
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#14
12-21-2006, 10:46 PM
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Re: How many spews in these back to back monsters?
Hand 1: My logic behind waiting to put my next bet in on the turn was that the SB was a poor player and since he called two cold I didn't think he was going to fold to two more with a pair here. Although if he calls two cold on the turn with a pair he's not making the worst mistake with 5 outs (assuming he knows we both have overpairs [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]). My game needs quite a bit of work, I know. What's the typical line when you have a made hand against what appears to be another big hand and there's that retard calling station in between?
Hand 2: [ QUOTE ] And why the river raise?!? [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] i'd probably do the same out of spite. [/ QUOTE ] tilt city [ QUOTE ] WTF in hand 2? You dont like money? [/ QUOTE ] apparantly not
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#15
12-21-2006, 11:22 PM
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Re: How many spews in these back to back monsters?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Cap the flop in hand 1. [/ QUOTE ] I don't think so. It's pretty obvious when you raise the flop on an OOP preflop capper that you have an overpair and Villain is not afraid of it. He's unlikely to 3Bet with QQ or JJ fearing KK or AA. It's unlikely he has KK since you have that (spliting anyway) so he has AA almost every time here. You know he doesn't have A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] for two overs and the nut flush draw since you have the K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Only if he put you on exactly A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] would he think he could 3Bet with JJ or QQ. Not so likely. If he has TT forget about it. Not that big a deal as the flop cap ends the betting there though. After that I just call down to further aggression. [/ QUOTE ] Got to disagree Tom. He plays JJ, QQ and KK the exact same way. Flop raises aren't worth the paper they are written on a lot of the time after big preflop action. I wouldn't even be surprised to see AQh, 99 etc. I think a flop 3 bet is a little too early to narrow him down to AA or 10 10. [/ QUOTE ] I'd also at that lots of OC + FD hands are believable in 3-betting that flop, as well as AT.
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#16
12-21-2006, 11:36 PM
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Re: How many spews in these back to back monsters?
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: My logic behind waiting to put my next bet in on the turn was that the SB was a poor player and since he called two cold I didn't think he was going to fold to two more with a pair here. Although if he calls two cold on the turn with a pair he's not making the worst mistake with 5 outs (assuming he knows we both have overpairs [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]). My game needs quite a bit of work, I know. What's the typical line when you have a made hand against what appears to be another big hand and there's that retard calling station in between? Hand 2: [ QUOTE ] And why the river raise?!? [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] i'd probably do the same out of spite. [/ QUOTE ] tilt city [ QUOTE ] WTF in hand 2? You dont like money? [/ QUOTE ] apparantly not [/ QUOTE ] I misread your post, I didnt realize the SB was still in the hand on the turn in your KKs hand. I wouldve raised the turn also and wouldve lost the same amount as you did. I only like the idea of waiting til the river to raise if you were in a HU situation.
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#17
12-22-2006, 05:30 AM
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Re: How many spews in these back to back monsters?
Villain hasn't gotten out of line in the several orbits we've played together... So did I miss a bet here?
Absolute Poker Limit Holdem Ring game Limit: $1/$2 5 players Converter Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#cc0000">UTG raises</font>, 3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG calls. Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6.5SB, 2 players) <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls. Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4.25BB, 2 players) Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG 3-bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero caps</font>, UTG calls. River: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (12.25BB, 2 players) <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG raises</font>, Hero calls. Results: Final pot: 16.25BB
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#19
12-23-2006, 06:05 AM
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Re: How many spews in these back to back monsters?
I really think this is spewage in both cases.
In hand 1 I would call down from turn aganinst a 18/16 player. Edit: I don't play the hand this way to begin with.I usually wait to river to raise. In hand two I smooth call flop and 3-bets turn and call down if he makes any more moves. I don't like waiting to the river because a fourth heart could make him freeze. Sure they can overplay it but definitely not enough times to make your play correct.
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