The yellow and orange M zones

[4CardStraight]

So i jsut quickly reskimmed that section of HoH2 (pages 129 to 145), and it is interesting that harrington suggests playing "looser" as you go down through the zones, but then in all the examples shows tighter play (folding more small pocket pairs, folding suited connectors due to not getting pot odds, etc)...

I think he means more the style of play should be looser (like going all in instead of raising, or betting more than the minimum required for a given result) due to the lower M. Like you can't bet half pot as a cbet if it leaves you less than pot behind in your chipstack. So you overbet... the overbet is a "loose" play, but it is not looser in starting hand requirements, just is putting more chips into the pot than was minimally necessary, as it maximizes your fold equity, and that is more valuable than leaving yourself a tiny stack after the hand in case you lose.

[fasteddy1970]

mornleth: Agreed, that's a good shove but it's more the subtelties that I'm trying to figure out like k-q os in first p. Where as it's usually a limp or fold in his first book, with a low M is he saying stop folding it, raise it etc?

[RobTheDuck]

[ QUOTE ]
Rob: Yea he says to do that with small pairs in suited conn. but he also suggests playing certain high pairs (I'm supposing he means 99 to jj a bit harder and also calling with more big cards. That's the part I'm having a problem with. Should I be opening K-Js in early P or calling a 5 bet raise with A-J and neglecting to follow the gap concept . He was so specific in many parts of the book but left that one without any.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are considering open-raising a hand, ask yourself two questions:
1.) If I get reraised am I willing to fold?
2.) If I get one caller, will my stack be larger than the pot?

If the answer to either question is no, then your preflop options are a.) push b.) fold

The reasoning behind question #2 is that if your stack is smaller than the pot after the flop and you push all-in then, you are probably getting called regardless of your opponent's holding. Pushing preflop gives you 2 ways to win: everone folds and you take the pot OR at showdown. Making a small raise and then inevitably getting it all in after the flop gives you only one way to win - at showdown.

Remember: winning tournaments is not about showing down the best hands - it is about having the most chips.

[fsoyars]

it's been a while since i read HOH2 but my understanding from that section was that as your M shrinks, you need to be more aggressive and widen your raising range. i don't believe he means that you should widen your calling range, i.e. you are now calling with KJo where before you were folding it. this is incorrect. as your stack shrinks you can't flat call, hope to hit the flop and muck if you don't. you just can't afford it. be more aggressive before the flop with your raising but not neccesarily looser with your flat calling.

[RetiredAt22]

[ QUOTE ]
In Harrington's second book on tournament play, he advises loosening up your play with certain hands and calling raises with hands you wouldn't call with if your M was larger, but he doesn't get specific. Can anyone cite an example of what kind of hand you start to play when your M gets to be in the 10-20 (yellow zone) range that you wouldn't play in with an M well over 20? What hands to you start calling raises with that you would ordinarily fold because of the Gap Concept? Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

Its not a matter of what hands you will all of a sudden start to play: its more about how you will enter the pot. Earlier in a tourny when your deep stacked it makes sense to limp mp with 55-77. but now that your M is lower, you have to make a stand, you want to be raising more hands than before. As for a guide to what hands to raise, thats all about your style and read of other players at the table. if you got some rocks on your left, you can get more creative and raise with some connectors, high hards, etc. if you got LAGs with good post flop play, be careful and maybe wait for some resteals. or limp-raise for a steal.

[tippy]

Maybe you are remembering a concept from the section where he was addressing action versus other Low M players. i.e. widening your range (loosening up)when facing a yellow/red zone opponent.

[Jeff76]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe you are remembering a concept from the section where he was addressing action versus other Low M players. i.e. widening your range (loosening up)when facing a yellow/red zone opponent.

[/ QUOTE ]Nope- I just re-read it. He definitely says to play more agressivly with your high card hands, and with a wider range. I don't see him saying to CALL lighter, but definitly to get invovled with a wider range.

[fasteddy1970]

Guys; Here is a direct quote from page 133 under Yellow Zone Strategy; "The preflp play criteria that I described in Volume 1 should be adjusted downward a bit so that you will raise or call or call with a few more hands than before. At the same time, your criteria for calling someone else's raise will drop, reflecting the fact that your opponent may be raising with weaker hands than before."

So he is clearly talking about playing more hands and making more calls of raises. There's nothing in that sentence about aggression. I understand that low M calls for more aggression but problem is with the two sentences about which imply that you limp with weaker hands and call raises with weaker hands than before.

[Trappped]

I disagree.
Remeber the Golden Rule, raising is always better than calling since it gives you 2 ways to win.

[Jeff76]

[ QUOTE ]
At the same time, your criteria for calling someone else's raise will drop, reflecting the fact that your opponent may be raising with weaker hands than before.

[/ QUOTE ]Doh! I even missed that in my hastey re-read.