AA in a 5 handed pot

[Ali shmali]

I don't think calling is great. You will have $19 behind and the turn pot will be $17. So you need to decide now whether you are willing to get your stack in or not. If not, then just fold. If you are, then you need to raise here and give your opponent the chance to make a bad call with a weaker hand.

The bet is big, but it's still only a 3/4 pot bet. How would QQ, KK, AJ, KQ spades play this hand? i think they all take the same line and you are ahead of all of them. SB called a good size raise preflop so you will lose to TT and JJ everynow and then. But not often enough to fold here I think.

[Publos Nemesis]

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I don't think calling is great. You will have $19 behind and the turn pot will be $17. So you need to decide now whether you are willing to get your stack in or not. If not, then just fold. If you are, then you need to raise here and give your opponent the chance to make a bad call with a weaker hand.

The bet is big, but it's still only a 3/4 pot bet. How would QQ, KK, AJ, KQ spades play this hand? i think they all take the same line and you are ahead of all of them. SB called a good size raise preflop so you will lose to TT and JJ everynow and then. But not often enough to fold here I think.

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why cant you wait for more information? you are ahead on the turn against a straight flush draw if the turn is a whiff.

[Smilin']

I like calling too. Might as well let some J's keep throwing chips into the pot before scaring them off. If Villain bets turn, he'll probably be pot-committed after Hero's raise.

As long as the turn is a brick, I feel fine about getting all the chips in here. The pot's pretty big given the 5 callers preflop.

[Haplo]

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I would probably fold it.
Yes, the board is full of draws.
But the person bet strongly oop into three other people--one of whom is the pre-flop raiser. I personally see this as strength--not someone with AJ--though some people are stupid enough to do this.
I think more likely you are facing two pair or a set. And so I would probably fold (unhappily).


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I may well use this response as an example in explaining weak/tight play. Villain made a less than pot sized bet on the flop into the preflop raises, which is a perfectly good thing to do for a number of hands, including some that are worse than yours such as TPTK. Even at higher stakes than the micros, this will happen. Folding an overpair every time someone bets in front of you means you will give up on a lot of money over the long run, which is why you should never do it in fear of two pair or a set. The only times you should simply give up on an overpair for one medium bet in a raised pot is when the flop is paired, tripled, three to a straight, or monochrome and you have real reason to believe that villain has what he represents. You may also think about folding if the preflop betting gives you reason to believe that you are facing a higher overpair. This is why we raise here. We are telling the villain with top pair, or for that matter QQ or JJ, that no, your pair isn't good here, I have better. To put it another way, we show why aggressive poker is winning poker. Now, that having been said, if you get reraised here, you need to give some thought to the possiblity of two pair or better. Even then, it is probably worth it to call and see if you improve on the turn.

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I agree that folding an overpair to a bet in front of you can be a bad thing. This is especially true if you are only facing one opponent.

But this guy isn't betting against only you. There are two other people involved in the hand, and he doesn't seem to care. Isn't it pretty possible that this guy has two pair or better?

Part of my fear of him having two pair or better, is that this is how I would bet if I had two pair or a set vs a lot of players. I'd bet and hope to get raised.

To everyone out there:

1) I assume calling here with position would be a bad thing with all the straight/flush cards that could come on the turn. Right?

2) If we did decide to raise, what would we raise to? With the pot already at 12 (and hero at 23--villain at 19), any raise seems to commit the rest of our chips to the pot.

[Haplo]

Publos Nemesis--I like your arguments for calling. They make sense. Well said.

With calling here, you have position on the flop aggressor and there is no one else in the hand. A raise does commit you most likely, and, as you said, you are probably already ahead. By calling, you get to observe and act based on the information you get on the turn.

[Archon_Wing]

Huh? What's so bad about commiting yourself when you're ahead?

Our hand has very high reverse implied odds-- that is there are few cards that can be considered safe for us and many that can be dangerous. Given that, we should really knock out draws or force them to pay. If the turn is scary, then we will have to fold 100% regardless of what villian is holding. By raising, we eliminate these implied odds.

When you call to reevaluate, you're either looking for pot control or a way to improve your hand. In this case, neither is viable. That is unless, villian is extremely aggro, then we might have an argument for calling it down.

[Sir Winalot]

Grunch, I shove this all day looong. I play 6-max though, so take it fwiw.

[corsakh]

Why is betting TPTK oop on a board full of draws stupid?
And I would shove too. You cant call this. And you cant fold unless you have a strong read.

[FalconTi0]

i would raise it up.

[corsakh]

You cant raise it up. Villain is not deep enough.