Wynn Casino = Collusion

[NewTeaBag]

[ QUOTE ]
that one guy is paranoid for saying 1/3 and 2/5NL games have collusion. I'll laugh all day at that one.

I however have played the 5/10NL @ wynn twice and do notice a handful of players "soft play" each other but not collude

its shady and I never returned and stuck it out at the bellagio

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah I see. There can't be collusion/softplay at smaller games? Especially with dealers involved?

Lauh all you like but saying the stakes determine the ethics is a rather boring and illogical retort.

[TStoneMBD]

i do agree that checking hands down against friends is bad for games and when people want to check down hands against me and have me return the favor i cite it as one of the reasons for why i dont do that.

[DeathDonkey]

Agree with Tstone on everything in this thread. Unfortunately, Wynn does bungle the higher limit stuff so they'll never keep any decent sized games going [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

-DeathDonkey

[Percula]

[ QUOTE ]
Back In Sep. I noticed significantly dodgy things going on in the $1-$3 and $2-$5 NLHE games.

The most blatant recurring item was dealers (offshift) playing in the games and raise reraising other players out of a hand then checking it down. Happening once, I said OK no big deal. But it happened repeatedly amongst numerous different dealers.

I brought this issue up with 3 different floorpersons/shift sup and got the same response. "it's their money, they can play it however they like." No matter what your take on it, surely it can't be right for Wynn staff to be doing this stuff with the blessing of Wynn management personell.

[/ QUOTE ]

The dealers are simply taking advantage of the very weak tight nature of these tables.

Back in September I was in a week night game of 2/5 in seat 6, most of the table was locals and dealers (2), everyone was fairly deep (1000+). Dealer in CO RR ($200) to a weak EP open ($15), guy on the button in 5 is hemming and hawing as rather he is going to play his hand or not.

In classic fashion he shows me his hand before folding and insisting that the dealer must have aces. What did he show me? KK.

EP calls the RR and they end up checking it down, both hollywooding it up on each street. Likely took a full 5 minutes to check it down. EP shows AJo and the dealer shows AKo.

Local nit in seat 5 goes on for the next hour how bad the dealers play was...

[Rick Nebiolo]

My response in Cliff Notes format:

- Appearance of impropriety is just as big a problem as impropriety.

- Acceptance of small improprieties eventually opens the field for far larger ones.

- This is an industry wide problem.

~ Rick

[magoo]

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[*TT*]

***NOTE***

Anyone who checks on Kathy's threads might believe she is an alarmist, the kind of which reminds me of the old RPG days, I'm not so sure her intentions are pure (they might be, since she is a new poster time will tell of course). For more information see her "No such thing as a random card/number generator" thread - .

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] link

[Kathy]

http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/category/articles/

Kathy

[phish]

[ QUOTE ]
i do agree that checking hands down against friends is bad for games and when people want to check down hands against me and have me return the favor i cite it as one of the reasons for why i dont do that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not only is it bad for the game, but it is also inevitable that such practice will eventually lead to a distortion in their play when there is still a third player in the hand.

Example: Player A and B don't bet each other when HU. Flop has 3 players. A bets out. B has mediocre hand, and doesn't know whether A is betting a draw or a made hand. But he knows that if he can squeeze C out, then he won't have to pay anymore money to get to showdown. So he raises the flop rather than just calling or folding. Hence, even if A and B hadn't originally intended to collude, the effective will be collusion nonetheless.

Likewise with talking about their hands during a hand. Or stuff like folding out of turn.

Poker is a game that works only if rules of strict independence are enforced. It is simply too easy to distort honest play with what may appear to be harmless breaches between friends.

It is obvious that the Wynn floor is clueless about how poker works, or should work. It always frustrates me to no end when I run into guys running poker rooms who don't have a clue about how the game works.

[Ignignokt]

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/category/articles/

Kathy

[/ QUOTE ]

Kathy, if you're so worried about collusion, bots and RNGs, maybe you should just not play poker.