Great QB's POLL

[WayAbvPar]

Marino, Manning, Marino.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

Brady Brady Brady [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Assani Fisher]

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Marino, Manning, Manning

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manning best ever w/o a title? lol cuz you know he's never winning one

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If Manning plays 16 years(at or above his current level) and never hoists the Lombardi Trophy, he'll be the best QB ever to play. The position is about vision, football IQ, and mechanics. Peyton can do all this with his eyes closed, all while acting as the offensive coordinator.

Rings and Championships are marks of great teams, a completely different topic.

Cody

[/ QUOTE ]Manning has had great teams around him both in the NFL and college. Until he at least MAKES A SUPER BOWL he simply can't be in the discussion for best ever imo.

Heres a question for everyone: Obviously Manning is a great QB- nobody disputes that. But clearly he has been helped by having one of the greatest WRs ever with him. And he also has had the luxury of having a very good #2 WR and a great pass catching RB(Edge James) for every year before this one. How well do you think Manning would do if you put him on say the Atlanta Falcons for a year?

Just for the record, Tom Brady led the NFL in TD passes with a WR corps of Deion Branch(in his rookie year, so he wasn't that great yet), Troy Brown, David Givens, Donald Hayes, and David Patten. And his RBs that year were Kevin Faulk, Marc Edwards, and Antowain Smith- none of whom rushed for over 400 yards, so its not like he had any RB to keep the D honest.

With that same cast, Tom Brady won the Super Bowl the year before that. That year his defense ranked 24th in the league. They were also coming off of a 6-10 season and were 0-2 when Brady replaced Drew Bledsoe. BTW, in week 3(Brady's first start) they played Indy. NE won.

[Assani Fisher]

Users may choose only one (32 total votes)
Brady
6 19%

Elway
1 03%

Manning
19 59%

Marino
6 19%

John Elway went to the SB in 1986. That year his defense was ranked 21st in yards allowed and 15th in points allowed. Gerald Willhite and Sammy Winder were was their featured RBs.Their leading WRs were Mark Jackson and Steve Watson. If you're asking "Who?" then you're not alone.

The next year, he took them to the SB again. Their defense had improved a bit, but still wasn't great- 7th in points allowed, 9th in yards allowed. John Elway was one of only 3 pro bowlers on the entire team, yet he still led them to the 2nd ranked offense in the entire NFL. Winder was back at RB for them. Ricky Nattiel and Vance Johnson were their leading WRs, although neither of them even had 700 yards.


In 1989 he once again made the SB. This year he actually did have some talent around him on defense. But he was the only pro bowler on offense. But I'll grant you that this team was much better than the previous ones.

And of course everyone knows about his two Super Bowl winning teams in the 90s, which were great all around teams.

Looking at these facts, it amazes me that so many people think that Manning is better than Elway.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

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Rings and Championships are marks of great teams, a completely different topic.

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to completely ignore championships won is as folly as awarding greatness b/c of championships won.

Are championships all that matters? No no no. But championships (and playoff performance) are certainly part of the body of work that needs to be considered, in particular for regular season MVP QB's who have spent a few years playing on great teams.

[Assani Fisher]

In Dan Marino's SECOND YEAR IN THE LEAGUE he threw for 5084 yards, which is about 500 yards greater than Manning's best season ever. He threw for 48 TDs. Manning once threw for 49, but other than that Manning has only once broken even 30(he got 33 once). Marino followed up this season with 30 TD year and then with a crazy 44 TD year. Oh, and yeah....he took them to the Super Bowl that year.


Look I have nothing against Peyton Manning, although it probably seems like I hate the guy since I'm always arguing against him. But I just think that many people here go way overboard regarding him. He is definitely in the discussion among all time greats, but he has his flaws for sure.

[Assani Fisher]

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Rings and Championships are marks of great teams, a completely different topic.

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to completely ignore championships won is as folly as awarding greatness b/c of championships won.

Are championships all that matters? No no no. But championships (and playoff performance) are certainly part of the body of work that needs to be considered, in particular for regular season MVP QB's who have spent a few years playing on great teams.

[/ QUOTE ]great post. I'd just like to add on that we clearly have to look at a team's surrounding cast when determining if he should be praised or bashed for winning or not winning a championship. Obviously Trent Dilfer is not better than Dan Marino. But Championships, when looked at in context, are indeed a decent measuring stick of a QBs' success.

[Richard Tanner]

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Rings and Championships are marks of great teams, a completely different topic.

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to completely ignore championships won is as folly as awarding greatness b/c of championships won.

Are championships all that matters? No no no. But championships (and playoff performance) are certainly part of the body of work that needs to be considered, in particularly for QB's who have spent a few years playing on great teams.

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I know you're a pats homer, at least you admit it, but I can't imagine too many owners picking Brady over Manning (not that you said that, just going one step further). Is Brady All-Galaxy like Manning. Yeah, I don't think there's much debate on that. In fact if Manning and Brady could have a love-child, I have little doubt Peyton Thomas Branning could throw the ball using only the power of his mind.
But to compare their styles is a little hard. Peyton is offensive coordinator on the field, his work ethic and Football IQ (at least for the opinions of other NFL players I've read) is second to none. Brady, is a game manager (why people find this so offensive I'm not sure), he goes in, makes "smaller" plays, doesn't make mistakes, and scores. Where Peyton is most likely to score in 4 plays, Brady tends to move down in 12. It doesn't matter, they both routinely help their O put up 6 points.

I'd be interested to see where Manning would be without Harrison and Wayne, and where Brady would be without Bill B.

Cody

[Richard Tanner]

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In Dan Marino's SECOND YEAR IN THE LEAGUE he threw for 5084 yards, which is about 500 yards greater than Manning's best season ever. He threw for 48 TDs. Manning once threw for 49, but other than that Manning has only once broken even 30(he got 33 once). Marino followed up this season with 30 TD year and then with a crazy 44 TD year. Oh, and yeah....he took them to the Super Bowl that year.


Look I have nothing against Peyton Manning, although it probably seems like I hate the guy since I'm always arguing against him. But I just think that many people here go way overboard regarding him. He is definitely in the discussion among all time greats, but he has his flaws for sure.

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I think the people that "go too far" (i.e. Me) do so because of the things that don't show up in the stats column. His ability to read defences. No one would consider it because they didn't win a title, but the Colts offence of the 2003-2005 seasons might have been the best of all time. Peyton is able (much of the time) to move the ball at will. If his numbers are down it's because teams are content to take away the deep ball and run nickel and dime coverages all game. Another fun stat is interceptions, this year he's thrown 2 passes to defenders, 6 others were tipped away, or droped, from his receivers.
It's not his stats entirely that make me want to watch him/root for him, but also his mental abilities.

Cody

[Kneel B4 Zod]

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Brady, is a game manager (why people find this so offensive I'm not sure), he goes in, makes "smaller" plays, doesn't make mistakes, and scores.

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probably b/c when people say "game manager" they are usually referring to someone who is not asked to lead his team, make big plays, not be the center of his offense, etc.

here were the league leaders in passing yards last year

1. T. Brady NE 4110
2. T. Green KC 4014
3. B. Favre GB 3881
4. C. Palmer CIN 3836
5. E. Manning NYG 3762

none of these would usually be referred to as game managers.

look, I don't want to drag this down into another Brady/Manning debate. I'm happy to have Brady, I'm sure you're happy to have Manning, and I'm fine with calling them both historically great QB's, neither of whom have flawless resumes or stats. And neither does anyone else.