Question for Minimum Wagers

[diddle]

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on youre hypothetical you are basically giving away free money, thats like saying you cant donate 4 dollars to charity because of minimum wage.

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Read it again.

It's not free money. It has to be EXTRACTED.

[diddle]

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Your post is stupid. How about that.

Are you telling me that there are ZERO jobs that have a maximum value of $5 per hour that still provide a NET GAIN to the economy?

The problem with economics is that even with an example this simple, people still manage to confuse it and [censored] it up; see the 1st reply to the thread.

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The negative externality of these jobs might be more costly than the positive (minor) benefit. Not to mention that even if such jobs are illegal, you could easily just set it up under the table if you have enough incentive.

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What are you talking about? What negative externality?

The positive benefit is not MINOR. If I hire 100 people to do it at $4.50 an hour I make $50 an hour. That is not minor.

I also am employing 100 people. That is also not minor.

Please tell me about the negative externality that is more important than these "minor" benefits.

[CaptainFreedom]

Well your hypothetical is pretty dumb because you haven't given enough detail to the scenario. I'm assuming this magic pennyfield is in present day US correct? Because if so I'm hiring those brown peoples that do crappy jobs like picking lettuce and slaughtering/packaging meat. What is the cost of living around this area of bleak land? I'm sure the cost of vegetables and everyday things will be at a premium so would everyday Americans even want that job? Would there even be 450 americans living around this desert?
You can't find 400,000 americans to pick fruit in california during the harvest season so why the hell would they want to lug hundreds of pounds of pennies around a hot desert in 105+ degree heat?

Edit: If this takes place in AC Land or Libertopia the answer is always "I'm hiring the savage remnants of the US Military to do my bidding. Then I will enslave your family to work the magic penny fields."

[valenzuela]

I will just change the hypothetical to you make $0.5 per worker and ure offering them $4.50. I just have a problem with a billion pennies being hidden on a desert.
Also in the example above they are actually paying you 50 cents an hour, so how about they hire you for 50 dollars an hour, that was easy. problem solved.

But suppose that they cant do that, in that very specific case then you are correct.
Also Xorbie is right that such clear cut cases you can always do it illegaly.
However I dont know what negative market externabilitis is he talking about.

[CaptainFreedom]

Actually screw it I'm changing my answer to I hate the poor.

[DougShrapnel]

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Sorry for another thread, delete if you want... I'm bored of seeing the same arguments rehashed over and over again.

ok my question:




I have 50 acres of land in the middle of the desert. I cannot build on the land as it is too unstable and there is no value in planting crops.

There are billions of pennies hidden throughout my land. The fastest and most economically efficient method of retrieving these pennies is by hand. One person can retrieve 500 pennies per hour.

The minimum wage is $6 per hour.

Many people have come to me looking for work. Should I be able to hire these people who want to work for me? I cannot afford to operate at a loss.

[/ QUOTE ]3 things.
We should deprecate the use of the penny.
You should depend on private charity for your 50 bucks an hour. Private charities are better than lack of government programs to assist starving capitalists.
What if it wasn't a minimum wage law that prevented profitability for your product. But a safety regulation imposed by a business bureau. Do you demand the right to be listed favoraibly in the business bureau's directory? By owning 50 arces of land in the desert you agreed to terms of the nation containing the land. This voluntary transaction is the cause of your delema. You assumed the risk that the venture of penny extraction would be profitable when you purchased the land. You should not be able to pass the lose for your slight miscalculation on to the employee. Bad business decisions should be paid for by the capitalist. after all that is the only reason why I can see the capitalist deserving any money. It's the assumption of risk.

I do believe you should be able to get the goverment to subsidize the extra cash needed for your business to meet the minimum wage requirements.

[keith123]

well that job (even ignoring the fact that adding dollars to the economy doesn't help), is an opportunity cost for the society we live in today. there are many many many jobs available that would pay more than 4.50 an hour and that would produce value way more than 5.00 an hour.

[keith123]

government shouldn't subsidize because there are many jobs that would still benefit companies at higher rates. the penny finding job is not as productive as other available jobs.

[Jimbo]

The simple solution is to hire illegal aliens during off peak fruit picking season.

Jimbo

[diddle]

Sorry but the replies to this are priceless.

Valenzuela I do not trust your reading comprehension. DougShrapnel what does private charity have to do with anything???

Assume the pennies are a good (fruit, vegetables, whatever). If I am allowed to hire these workers I am CREATING $500 per hour in wealth. Surely this cannot be bad.

I pose a simple scenario and the people who don't like it are not making coherant responses. Every response says either "do something illegal" or "change the terms of the scenario".


2 points:

If you don't think there are people willing to work for $5 pr hour than you have no credibility with me.

This situation is highly analagous to the agriculture industry. Simply replace the pennies with strawberries. If not for government subsidies the [censored] would hit the fan as there are many jobs in agriculture that are simply NOT worth >$5.