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#12
12-02-2006, 10:27 AM
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Re: 1/2 Stars QQ, deep, interesting
iīd play it the same, and fold the river. If heīs any good he realizes that you have at least JJ there and that you are likely to call the river if you call that big raise on the turn.
Though itīs a tough spot, i probably fold the turn if itīs not a 2nd heart. 
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#13
12-02-2006, 10:57 AM
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Re: 1/2 Stars QQ, deep, interesting
[ QUOTE ]
Checking flop is good, and u guys should do it with almost any hand that u 3beted pf with. [/ QUOTE ] Could I hear more about this? I understand it as a variation play (maybe even as much as say 30% of the time), but checking as a matter of course? Aren't we losing value?
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#15
12-02-2006, 11:03 AM
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Re: 1/2 Stars QQ, deep, interesting
I think villain played most hands badly if he is ahead, unless he got there on the turn with 22.
River is a SUPER SUPER EASY FOLD if villain is anywhere near good as the only semi bluff just got there. anyway, people need big hands to make big bets in deep pots so I would probably just give QQ up, especially as JJ / TT is not going to be c/ring like this and betting river like this. There is no hand you beat imo. I think turn call is sketchy but probably okish.
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#16
12-02-2006, 11:06 AM
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Re: 1/2 Stars QQ, deep, interesting
Flop check is good since he would do it with a variety of hands including AK. And no we don't lose value. We are not getting 3 streets of value vs a hand like JJ here, so cutting it down to a 2 street pot is fine. I'm calling the river. He's representing absolutely nothing with his line. He would have led the turn with anything that beats you since he can't expect you to bet the turn (you check behind the turn with AK yes?). We must be good here enough to call.
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#17
12-02-2006, 11:07 AM
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Re: 1/2 Stars QQ, deep, interesting
[ QUOTE ]
Flop check is good since he would do it with a variety of hands including AK. And no we don't lose value. We are not getting 3 streets of value vs a hand like JJ here, so cutting it down to a 2 street pot is fine. I'm calling the river. He's representing absolutely nothing with his line. He would have led the turn with anything that beats you since he can't expect you to bet the turn (you check behind the turn with AK yes?). We must be good here enough to call. [/ QUOTE ] we definitely have 3 streets of value here if you are playing. Also, you should be 2-strett / 3-street bluffing AK here at least some of the time.
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#18
12-02-2006, 11:19 AM
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Re: 1/2 Stars QQ, deep, interesting
[ QUOTE ]
I think turn call is sketchy but probably okish. [/ QUOTE ] Simply because it's hard to see him doing that as a bluff, but you may have induced one with the flop check.
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#19
12-02-2006, 01:22 PM
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Re: 1/2 Stars QQ, deep, interesting
Perhaps its my lousy english, but i dont get any of this...
[ QUOTE ] Flop check is good since he would do it with a variety of hands including AK. [/ QUOTE ] Does this mean your checking through AK as a rule of thumb on this flop? Why? In general im pretty happy and i fire away, i dont feel like im spewing either. [ QUOTE ] And no we don't lose value. We are not getting 3 streets of value vs a hand like JJ here, so cutting it down to a 2 street pot is fine. [/ QUOTE ] I dont get the theory behind this. How does checking this flop convert a 3street hand to a 2street hand? I see how there are only 2 streets left, however by betting a flop you get the same deal if you wish (bet flop, check turn or bet flop, bet turn and folding to a raise for instance) only with a lot more info about your opponents hand and thus much much more potcontrol. So i dont think that argument stands, and fwiw i think any move (in this case the flopcheck) where you give away control of a pot, and thus essential info that crystallises the action to take, is about one of the most valuelosing moves one can make in NLHE. [ QUOTE ] I'm calling the river. He's representing absolutely nothing with his line. He would have led the turn with anything that beats you since he can't expect you to bet the turn (you check behind the turn with AK yes?). We must be good here enough to call. [/ QUOTE ] Agree to disagree then. Lots of people stab if checked to twice in a hand HU, and often they are right doing so. I can understand villains line, if he has trips, boat, a heartdraw or a bluff. Only the latter i wouldn't expect to fire again on the river, but of course it depends on how the villain plays. regards,
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#20
12-02-2006, 01:29 PM
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Re: 1/2 Stars QQ, deep, interesting
Why do you frequently check flops with pairs?
Why did you check this specific flop with QQ? Theres a very good chance he has a pair 77-JJ as well as AK/AQ type hands on the flop. As played, I think the river is a fold though. But you did put yourself in a tough spot IMO.
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