Albright article and propokertools.com

[catlover]

Well, here is the thing. As a player, what generally interests me the most is the situation where I know my hand, and I want to know what equities I might end up with against the range of hands my opponent might have. That's the graph I'd most want to see, and it's also the graph the article incorrectly assumed it was getting out of the flopalyzer.

That said, I can see your point about the difficulty that the boardcards do not all have equal probability. So it's harder for the computer to give me the graph I want.

I don't understand what you mean by hand n-tuple.

[bachfan]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, here is the thing. As a player, what generally interests me the most is the situation where I know my hand, and I want to know what equities I might end up with against the range of hands my opponent might have. That's the graph I'd most want to see, and it's also the graph the article incorrectly assumed it was getting out of the flopalyzer.


[/ QUOTE ]

Now you've lost me again. The graph, taken as a whole, IS showing you data across a range of hands. It's just that each individual data point is for a specific hand n-tuple on the next betting round. But because there are thousands of such data points, it's not a problem. Other than your example on the river, I don't understand what you want that you aren't getting.

P.S. By hand n-tuple, I mean the following.
In omaha, if we are racing AA** vs 9876, a legal n-tuple would be AcAsKd8s vs 9s8h7d6d

[RoundTower]

bachfan - I emailed you about this before but didn't get a reply. Is there any way of getting the raw data that goes into the flopalyser graph? I tried to do something similar to the author of the article some time ago, but it is a lot of work to convert the graph into a spreadsheet.

[Troll_Inc]

[ QUOTE ]
bachfan - I emailed you about this before but didn't get a reply. Is there any way of getting the raw data that goes into the flopalyser graph? I tried to do something similar to the author of the article some time ago, but it is a lot of work to convert the graph into a spreadsheet.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if you have this graph...
http://www.propokertools.com/simulator/f...amp;h4=&h5=


Is this what you are looking for?
http://www.propokertools.com/simulator/f...=&mode=data

[bachfan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
bachfan - I emailed you about this before but didn't get a reply. Is there any way of getting the raw data that goes into the flopalyser graph? I tried to do something similar to the author of the article some time ago, but it is a lot of work to convert the graph into a spreadsheet.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if you have this graph...
http://www.propokertools.com/simulator/f...amp;h4=&h5=


Is this what you are looking for?
http://www.propokertools.com/simulator/f...=&mode=data

[/ QUOTE ]

I will make this a proper (ie, non hidden) feature in the near future when I do my next code cleanup.

Cheers,
bachfan

[catlover]

[ QUOTE ]


Now you've lost me again. The graph, taken as a whole, IS showing you data across a range of hands. It's just that each individual data point is for a specific hand n-tuple on the next betting round. But because there are thousands of such data points, it's not a problem. Other than your example on the river, I don't understand what you want that you aren't getting.

P.S. By hand n-tuple, I mean the following.
In omaha, if we are racing AA** vs 9876, a legal n-tuple would be AcAsKd8s vs 9s8h7d6d

[/ QUOTE ]

But as a player, I don't want a graph showing equities of n-tuples. I want a graph of my equity vs. opponent's range!

For instance, let's suppose that when the flop arrives, my opponent (who I believe has AA**) and I each have $100 in front of us, and there are $100 in the middle. I will fold if I have less than 33% equity against his range. This is different from having less than 33% equity against the specific AA hand he happens to be holding.

So the EV of my hand on the flop is:

0 if I have less than 33% equity against his range.
$300*my equity against his range -$100 otherwise.

With a graph of my equity against his range on various flops, I can do this calculation (and this is exactly what the article attempted to do.) But with a graph of equities of hand n-tuples on various flops, I can't, because I am working with a different graph.

I think this calculation is important, and that's why I want the data for it.

[RoundTower]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
bachfan - I emailed you about this before but didn't get a reply. Is there any way of getting the raw data that goes into the flopalyser graph? I tried to do something similar to the author of the article some time ago, but it is a lot of work to convert the graph into a spreadsheet.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if you have this graph...
http://www.propokertools.com/simulator/f...amp;h4=&h5=


Is this what you are looking for?
http://www.propokertools.com/simulator/f...=&mode=data

[/ QUOTE ]
YES SWEET.

[bachfan]

[ QUOTE ]


But as a player, I don't want a graph showing equities of n-tuples. I want a graph of my equity vs. opponent's range!



[/ QUOTE ]

What do you think a non-exhaustive range of hands simulation is doing? It randomly deals hand-n-tuples and boards. That is exactly what I am doing here.

Perhaps this will clear it up further. If we are doing an exhaustive simulation, your method looks like:

for each flop F
for each hand tuple T (ie, complete range of hands sim)
generate odds
end
graph one data point
end

my version is:

for each hand tuple T
for each flop F
generate data
graph one data point
end
end

I hope it is clear that the data being graphed is equivalent. There is a separate issue of graphing by flop or graphing by flop/n-tuple, but that has to do with the VIEW of the data, not the data itsef.

Now, for generating random trials, you have two choices.
You can pick a flop and do ALL the tuples T, wash rinse repeat.
Or you can pick one flop and one tuple, wash rinse repeat.
I submit to you that these are also equivalent given enough trials.

Clear? (As mud?)

[bachfan]

As an aside, the view HAS changed in one way, which makes it much more useful (and did not quite make it in time for the paper):

http://www.propokertools.com/simulator/f...&height=650

[catlover]

No, my method is

For each flop F
generate odds across all hand tuples
end
graph one data point
end

I still submit that this is different!

I wish I knew how to break out of the circle we seem to have gotten into.