KK line. low board/draw-heavy/ board pair the works. - Page 2

JooWish622 · #11 11-20-2006, 07:25 PM

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bad spot to block bet riv, just check and re-eval based on the obv - bet size, timing, history, reads, etc. i think this is a decent spot to b/f turn to protect against draws since i could see this getting checked back pretty often.

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i see, so we b/f turn because hands that i am often beating check behind on this turn and he could very well have raised with a draw on this flop.

Block betting... when do i do it. This is not a spot? It is unlikely that he has an 8 (its more likely he doesnt have an 8 given teh two 8s) and hands that i beat will check behind if i check but call and hands that i lose to will call or raise.

why is my block bet not appropriate?

JooWish622 · #12 11-20-2006, 07:26 PM

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I prefer c/c river. The draws missed and that's a great card for him to bluff at.

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if he was bluffing...

given the hand (i am being results oriented to make a point), i would have called off more... probably like 200+

JooWish622 · #13 11-20-2006, 07:27 PM

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TT-QQ or at least JJ and QQ will probably 3-bet you preflop. 99 checks behind on the turn a lot. So, the only hand we valuebet against are pretty much never his actual hand.

So, IMO the river bet is rather "spewy" or whatever you englishspeaking guys call it. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

The rest of the hand is rather standard, I guess.

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spewy? so you're implying we just flat fold the river correct?

You guess? what the hell does that mean at the end here. Are you sarcastically criticizing my play or dont know better. please, speak up!

JooWish622 · #14 11-20-2006, 07:27 PM

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Actually I think I was being results-oriented with my last post. Bet and get value from other overpairs, fold to a raise. But make a real bet.

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i was trying to make a block bet...but now my reasoning behind it may be in question... discuss

JooWish622 · #15 11-20-2006, 07:28 PM

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I might reraise him on that flop. If he calls, you think he simply has an 8. He can't call a re-re raise on that board with any draw. He re pops with any made hand, and you can get away from the KK.

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nope nope, not with stacks this deep OOP

Matte_Maiden · #16 11-20-2006, 07:36 PM

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TT-QQ or at least JJ and QQ will probably 3-bet you preflop. 99 checks behind on the turn a lot. So, the only hand we valuebet against are pretty much never his actual hand.

So, IMO the river bet is rather "spewy" or whatever you englishspeaking guys call it. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

The rest of the hand is rather standard, I guess.

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spewy? so you're implying we just flat fold the river correct?

You guess? what the hell does that mean at the end here. Are you sarcastically criticizing my play or dont know better. please, speak up!

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With "spewy" (I don't even know the word, just noticed that a bunch of people here uses it) I meant that the bet IMO was significant worse than check-calling. Overpairs are not a especially big part of his hand range, and a good player won't call you with much worse than tens anyway.

I didn't mean to be sarcastic at the end, I meant that I would play the flop and turn pretty much the same as you. No hard feelings mate. =)

Matte_Maiden · #17 11-20-2006, 07:39 PM

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I might reraise him on that flop. If he calls, you think he simply has an 8. He can't call a re-re raise on that board with any draw. He re pops with any made hand, and you can get away from the KK.

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I think he would rather call with a draw than a 8 in that spot. I mean, who calls there with top pair?

Secondly, the 3-bet on the flop just gives away our hand and is letting him play perfect poker against us. He can smoth-call when he's got a set, shove with two-pairs and so on. The pot gets big and we put ourselves in a terrible situation.

JooWish622 · #18 11-20-2006, 07:48 PM

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TT-QQ or at least JJ and QQ will probably 3-bet you preflop. 99 checks behind on the turn a lot. So, the only hand we valuebet against are pretty much never his actual hand.

So, IMO the river bet is rather "spewy" or whatever you englishspeaking guys call it. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

The rest of the hand is rather standard, I guess.

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spewy? so you're implying we just flat fold the river correct?

You guess? what the hell does that mean at the end here. Are you sarcastically criticizing my play or dont know better. please, speak up!

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With "spewy" (I don't even know the word, just noticed that a bunch of people here uses it) I meant that the bet IMO was significant worse than check-calling. Overpairs are not a especially big part of his hand range, and a good player won't call you with much worse than tens anyway.

I didn't mean to be sarcastic at the end, I meant that I would play the flop and turn pretty much the same as you. No hard feelings mate. =)

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but you see by check-calling, i would have wasted more money than if i bet and then folded to a raise. I don't think he's 3 barrel bluffing given my unspectacular read of him (and since 3 barrels bluffs are seldom done anyway). By betting, i allow him to call with hands he would check behind with and by block betting i waste less money than if he bets a hand on the end that beats me, given that he isnt bluffing, which is a safe assumption.

comments?

AAismyfriend · #19 11-20-2006, 07:56 PM

I don't like blocking the river here because if he is any good, he will know exactly what you have, and if he has a missed draw, or got counterfeited by that 8 with 56, he will bluff raise you off your hand. If he's not capable of making plays like this, blocking is fine i suppose.

Requin · #20 11-20-2006, 07:58 PM

If he's not bluffing, ever (which is ridiculous btw), then c/f.