Seemed okay at the time.

[Kwaz]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok. So he wouldn't have 3bet your c/r.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. But part of the reason I donked was fear of having to make the above decision.

[TheGunner]

I understand. But since he is totally reliable I think you can fold the turn then. Your Ace and Jack outs could be dirty too.

[milesdyson]

kwaz,

if your initial plan was to fold later UI if raised on the flop, i'm not sure if mathmatically that is correct if he can also have AJ. i'm not going to do the math to see if you should have called down a flop raise UI assuming he can have AJ. it is quite possible that your initial plan was correct even if he can have AJ. however, if he can have AJ, folding on this turn is definitely not ok, and i don't have to check the math on that one.

what i'm getting at is that maybe you should do this math:

- figure out if your initial postflop plan is correct assuming he can have undiscounted AJ hands.
- if it is incorrect assuming undiscounted, figure out how much you need to discount AJ to make the postflop plan breakeven against his range (where it doesn't matter if you check call down UI vs. a flop raise or not)
- then, with this discounted AJ amount, see how many weighted outs you have on the turn if you check raise (assuming he always 3-bets you with AJ) and see if you should showdown hoping to split.

edit: i wouldnt take the time to try to do this if i were you

[VickreyAuction]

I'd call down the turn 3bet. Unless you can really trust him.

[Kwaz]

[ QUOTE ]
kwaz,

if your initial plan was to fold later UI if raised on the flop, i'm not sure if mathmatically that is correct if he can also have AJ. i'm not going to do the math to see if you should have called down a flop raise UI assuming he can have AJ. it is quite possible that your initial plan was correct even if he can have AJ. however, if he can have AJ, folding on this turn is definitely not ok, and i don't have to check the math on that one.

what i'm getting at is that maybe you should do this math:

- figure out if your initial postflop plan is correct assuming he can have undiscounted AJ hands.
- if it is incorrect assuming undiscounted, figure out how much you need to discount AJ to make the postflop plan breakeven against his range (where it doesn't matter if you check call down UI vs. a flop raise or not)
- then, with this discounted AJ amount, see how many weighted outs you have on the turn if you check raise (assuming he always 3-bets you with AJ) and see if you should showdown hoping to split.

edit: i wouldnt take the time to try to do this if i were you

[/ QUOTE ]

I greatly discounted AJ based on preflop.

[milesdyson]

i feel like if "greatly" means in the neighborhood of 75% given preflop and the turn 3-bet, then you should just fold to the turn 3-bet. you're dead to AA and drawing to 2 outs against QQ and AQ but if you hit either an A or J you can't actually raise it.

[grando]

after getting 3bet on the turn you're looking to fold AJ on AQJ5 board?

I can't see me ever folding this hand

edit: I c/r the turn in the OP 100% of the time